ZEITGEIST Death and resurrection in Zeitgeist

[hirou]

Upon reading through the campaign I was left with a feeling that resurrection is somewhat uncommon in Languir. Raise dead ritual by RAW 4ed is merely a 500 gp (or 680 gp scroll), which is well affordable by 2-3 rd level. I generally don't like this, as it lessens the value of human life to a price of 3rd level magic item.
I can imagine that general difficulty of interplanar travel applies to Bleak gate as well? How have you managed resurrection in your games? What's the stance of game creators on this?

 

[RangerWickett]

I could go either way.

In my personal version of this world? Yeah, resurrection doesn't happen. Ghosts and undead are possible, but outright "he was dead and now he's alive again" won't happen. But I know games as stories require some continuity of characters.

I'd honestly prefer a change in game mechanic terminology. Instead of being 'dead,' someone is 'mortally wounded.' Magic can stabilize them (so as long as you've got fellow PCs around, you shouldn't die), but recuperation might take weeks unless you hire a healer to perform a ritual for 500 gp to accelerate their healing. Of course stuff like coup de grace, falling in lava, or being buried under an avalanche of necrotic oil would kill you outright.

 

[skotothalamos]

so far, we've had 6 deaths (through about 80% of adventure 4).

2 were overruled by the act of a powerful in-game entity.
1 was creatively ret-conned into some arcane shenanigans that just looked like a death to everyone else
1 involved an already undead character coming back as a rebuilt Revenant version of herself
2 stayed dead

None of them have just been, "oh we pay for Raise Dead and now we're off to the next scene."

 

[hirou]

Thank you for your answers! Well, my timing on this couldn't be better. Party is going through Dying skyseer in roughly the quickest possible way, which means they met Eberardo and Valando on 2nd level, with Daily powers mostly spent after the Cauldron hill battle. They refused to run away (which becomes somewhat a tradition) and didn't give the enemies a chance to run away either.

With some exceptional dice rolling and decision-making on both sides (brothers open with a crit on fire breath and fire wall autodamage, which almost killed party tank outright; natural 20 on PC's death saving throw; gunsmith scaring the out of everyone by threatening to detonate the firedust in the wagon with his grenade, which would have pretty much wiped the scene clean), the final result is: brothers are badly beaten and in custody, a bit of pavement down the street is molten (poor horse in that wagon), 3 PC brushed with death and were saved by allied police officers and party Vekeshi mystic took exactly the amount of damage to bring him to negative bloodied value.

I'd say this is very realistic way of handling an encounter roughly 4 levels above the party level. One more point of damage - and restoration would only be possible by divine means, but, as the body is mostly intact in this case, preserved by Gentle repose, party has caught the wind of some doctor in Nettles who can bring back the dead from the doorstep of Bleak Gate...

 

[hirou]

A bit of update on topic: Vekeshi mystique was brought back from the doorstep of death by Dr von Reklinghausen, but Reed McBannin rolled natural 20 on his Toll of the Bleak Gate attack on our spirit medium last session. As he was already unconscious from 2 consequent crits from Kell thugs (this was somewhat unlucky session for players, as you can guess), that brought him well under his negative bloodied value.
I ruled that his body was transferred to Bleak Gate outright... but party was clever enough to recover it once they reached the lab. There's a bit of delay before we start the next module, so I have time to think and decide if they have a chance to bring him back or no.
First option is that at least Crissailir clerics may have a chance to cast Raise dead ritual, perhaps for 10x cost as compared to RAW (5000 gp for resurrection of heroic character). I'm yet to check how much would it break later modules. Requisition of 10th level cleric from Crissailir for 8 hours is around Prestige 7 (base 3, +2 for time needed, +2 for international favor), which will require Diplomacy check with DC 36 to enable it within a month, which is within the range of possible for mid-heroic characters.
Second option is that the party is about to meet Voice of Rot, who would be glad to return the dead to life as his agent, perhaps as a revenant. This may lead to interesting situations later on, but may screw his character scores a bit.

 

[RangerWickett]

There's always the, "Because of the circumstances of your death" excuse.

The party might call in a cleric who explains that normally a soul would pass through the Bleak Gate and on to the afterlife (through Nem, if you ask a skyseer), but because the body went to the Bleak Gate too, the soul stayed with the body and can be retrieved. There is a ritual, kept secure in the Grand Librarium of Alais Primos, but so rare are opportunities to restore the dead properly to life that the Clergy would be willing to take it out of its vault and use it once.

A whole procession of priests from the Clergy come to Risur to witness the once in a lifetime event. Cue one 500 gp Raise Dead ritual.

After that, the PC is a celebrity. He's frikkin' Harry Potter, the "spirit medium who lived." Everyone in Flint knows him. Various religious sects pester him every few weeks to ask if he has any wisdom from the afterlife. Have that PC constantly watched by members of the Family, who see him as a semi-divine figure, the first person to be resurrected in a century without, y'know, turning into a wretched monster. (And they're prepared to put him down in case he does become a wretched monster.)

Turn it into a story hook, I say. Certainly don't wait until 1/3 of the way into Digging for Lies, when the Voice of Rot shows up.

 

[hirou]

I certainly like your creativity. The only problem is that this should not become a routine, and I don't want to decrease the difficulty of encounters, so I'm certain there will be more deaths incoming...

 

[Crispy120286]

my pathfinder group always tends to abuse reincarnation since its a 1000gp cast instead of a 5000gp cast.

i'm really considering of cutting the raise dead magic from my game and leaving it as something caused by the ties of the planets. Probably going to leave it in as my players will likely make a fuss about it. Could have to be something they need to requisition. "Where are we going to find a 5000gp diamond?" not something priests or oracles keep on hand, nor would they really learn that spell. Clerics on the other hand... *thinks of how Morgan Cippiano could get some points in on this, hehee*

 

[hirou]

So, spirit medium was brought back in an impressive 7 days ritual with personal participation of Archbishop Lucien. Clergy now regards (and depicts) him as living proof that human life has a higher purpose everyone should strive for. Just to be sure, he now bears seven holy stigmata on his arms, legs, ribs and tongue (party was quick to remember Nevard's vision...), which are basically primed custom "Detect evil" rituals, watching for possible violation of 7 virtues. At least until plot demands a development of this connection...
On the other hand, he is now watched (and praised) 24/7 by 2 Flint locals (with a paper from Goodson reformatory affirming they are mad but harmless), who are sure that he is Sithrak All-non-forgiving and Hateful (SFW link, NSFW site in general) reincarnated. They are eagerly waiting for him to start tormenting souls and bodies of all things living, and he's quite close to give them what they want