D&D 4E Death of Spells in 4E

[satori01]

I want to preface this and say I love spells. I love that in 3.5, between the Spell Compendium and PHB there are spells to deal with any circumstance. I love that in many combats a spell like Dimensional Anchor can be the key, and a Passwall spell is worth more than all the evocations in the world.

I disagree that all Wizards are evokers that stand in the back. I bemoan the loss of Necromancy, (you can not convert save vs death to other types of effects or use some imagination to change how it works, you are designers people), or that Enchantment magic is being saved for another class.

D&D is a game with a 30 year history, subtle magic like Charm Person have been around since the beginning, so sorry, for a spell slinging freak like myself, telling me "we will take care of that latter" is not a real incentive for me to buy the book.

Wizards sound much smaller now in stature, with no enchantments, fewer transmutations, and little to no Necromancy.

 

[Particle_Man]

The spells are fine, but divided up.

Like in 1st ed, when illusionists and magic-users had different spell lists.

 

[Cadfan]

I understand your position.

I, personally, prefer a breadth of classes to having one polymath class that covers tons of territory. So for me, having wizards lose some of their "we can do anything" nature, and giving some of their abilities to other classes to make them more viable and to give them more of a niche, is a positive thing.

I can understand why someone who likes the "wizards as polymaths" archetype would disagree.

I don't know what else to say about that. I'm happy with the change, but I'm sorry you are not. The best I can suggest is to give this style of play a try- instead of having a campaign world inhabited by "wizards who mostly choose to use enchantment spells," and "wizards who mostly choose to use evocation spells," and "wizards who mostly choose to use curses," it can be a world of Psions, Wizards, and Warlocks.

 

[sidonunspa]

Well Rituals will still "feel" like spells.

But I have a feeling spells in combat are dead and replaced by static spell like abilities; for example your per day ability wizard strike and your 1/day may be wizard scorch.

Of course, I'm feeling a little pessimistic today so take that with a grane of "I dont know for sure one way or another..." and some salt

 

[sirwmholder]

Honestly... the Necromancy School of Magic was the worst design decisions in history. At best it gave Wizards limited clerical powers without the benefit of healing... at worst it gave every emo the desire to play an "evil" wizard instead of a death priest. I am glad they finally trounced the schools.

I always saw magic as something that was more free-flowing and less defined by list and schools. I'm elated Psionics appears to be shaping up to be more than just Arcane with ecto-plasma flavoring. I am really excited about the possibilities available with talents. Who hasn’t wanted to play an armor wearing Battle Mage at some point?

The scope of changes in this new edition... while staggering... seems to be in the spirit of building a character however you envision them. At the same time, the designers know that these combinations are going to exist so they are trying to retain some degree of balance by allowing you to do just that from the beginning. This edition is revolutionary in vision... it is being designed with a "Yes you can and here is how" approach. Bravo!

Well that's how I see it,
Wm. Holder

 

[Wolfspider]

Revolutionary, eh?

Hmmm.

 

[Deverash]

I bemoan the loss of Necromancy, (you can not convert save vs death to other types of effects or use some imagination to change how it works, you are designers people), or that Enchantment magic is being saved for another class.

Unless you've read something I've missed(after page 5 of most threads, I get tired of reading the same arguments on both sides), they didn't say (in information already 4 months out of date) that they were getting rid of necromancy. The poster was bemoaning the loss of save or die spells, which we already knew about. There's a lot more to necromancy than save or die, though that does tend to be the most used spells in any high level spell casters arsenal in 3.x

 

[GravyFingerz]

I never liked spells, because then everyone has to make their own spell. I always felt that generic abilities that were modifiable were better than having specific spells. It doesn't have the flavor of D&D spells I suppose, but I grew up with the OD&D Moldvay basic set, where you just had a few spells, and no named spells. I don't feel any loss with the lack of spells at all.

 

[Larrin]

(this is all IMHO reasonable speculation)

They've given several indications that there will be illusionist classes, and i think a logical step to take is to have hope there will be enchanters, necromancers, etc as well. Instead of trying to get all the flavor of a speacialist mage in a wizard cookie cutter template, they've admitted "Hey, they don't get enough unique flavor this way" and decided to leave the board wide open for speacialist to be full individually flavored classes of their own. Necormancers have needed this very badly (everyone was always trying to make their own not-a-wizard-necro anyway, Dread/true necromancer, Bone master (or whatever it was), etc.) Illusionists and enchanters get to ride the wave along with them (possibly conjurers too)

so Rather than have 4 'practically wizard' classes in PHB1, they just stuck in the generalist wizard, he's the jack of all schools. The necro's et al will trickle in along with monk and bard at a reasonable rate.

Thus, you will be able to play the master of enchantment and undeath, you just cant do it with a wizard. You'll have to wait. Its not a squashing of the wizard, its a division of flavor, and limited space to put it all in one book (and limited time to design/playtest them).

 

[Doug McCrae]

Wizards worked in 1974. They became broken as soon as the thief class was added and have remained so ever since. They have too many powers, suffocating the life out of any new class.

I love that in 3.5, between the Spell Compendium and PHB there are spells to deal with any circumstance.

That's a bug, not a feature.

DM: You face a problem.
Wizard player: I cast a spell.
DM: The problem goes away.

Or, worst case scenario for the wizard -

DM: You face an unexpected problem.
Wizard player: Oh no! I'll have to wait a whole day before I can solve this one!! *Sobs*