Death of the LGS

[Teflon Billy]

...On the other hand, your FLGS--me, people like me--are the cradle of the gaming population. It is through us, and the locations we provide for players to come and play--valuable retail space we pay rent on and which could easily be retasked for more retail space--that provides the continuing growth of new D&D players and roleplayers in general...

I feel for your plight Scott, butt he above comment is incredibly flawed.

The FLGS--even the insanely good ones I have here in Vancouver--are not the "cradle of the gaming population". They just aren't, and I'm not sure they ever have been.

I learned to play from a couple of friends who learned to play from their older brothers.

A few of the younger guys I know learned from school gaming clubs (apparently chess clubs have a lot of D&D crossover)

And the true noobs I know learned from internet forums like this one.

Literally no one I know "learned to play" at a Game Store.

I know tons of folks who have come to Heroclix, Magic: The Gathering, and Warhammer Minis from the FLGS.

 

[Quartz]

I'd just like to emphasise the cost of going to he FLGS. When I was living in Ascot, 20 years ago, I used to think nothing of driving down to Aldershot to visit Esdevium Games. When I was in Aylesbury 10 years ago. I thought little of driving down to The Gamekeeper in High Wycombe. Each was about a gallon of fuel each way. That's £10 / $20 today. Plus parking. That's simply not affordable these days.

I don't have any answers.

 

[Corjay]

gamersgambit:

I realize now that you just don't want to let go of RPG stuff, so I have a couple ideas for that particular aspect in addition to what I already mentioned.

• Rent out table space for RPG's. Since RPG's are a loss for you at the moment, first, I would suggest that you rent out tables for the RPG crowd instead of just letting them use them freely, because RPG's require more space and the more space you give for it, the less you have available for more money-making ventures. Logic, I'm sure they'll understand, and which is similar to pool halls.
• Don't display the RPG's on the shelves. Books on the shelves should be squeezed tight to make room for more lucrative products. But that's not the end of RPG display...
• Put the latest RPG product samples in a vertical display bin that takes up no room next to the cash wrap or display them prominently up high on wire racks behind the cash wrap that takes up no space.
• Keep only 1 sample of each product on the floor and keep the rest in boxes or on display as pointed out above.
• Provide secondary products with the purchase of an RPG book. For instance, a repackaged miniature. Since you're not selling the figure, but giving it away, the prohibition on singular resale doesn't apply. You can put an attractive and very visible sign up advertising this gift.
• Become an online outlet (more than just a web presence, but becoming one of the retailers that sells at a discount). This will give you the opportunity to sell the product in store at lower prices as well.
• Focus your sales attention. Do you see a mother coming in with her 10 year-old son browsing for any old game? Perfect opportunity to graduate him to roleplaying. Particularly give attention to mentioning that there are regular games in the store that last hours (thus taking the kid off the mother's hands for hours a week), and giving the child an opportunity at making new friends.
• Is there someone conversing about how he hasn't played RPG's in ages? Encourage him to get back into it and offer him a deal that makes it hard for him to refuse on a product of his choice. You might be taking it at a loss at that time, but if he buys it, you've just snagged a long time customer.
• For crying out loud, compliment the ladies. No, don't flirt, just let them know they've been noticed. "Hey, great purse, where'd you get that? My wife likes that style." You can then talk to them about things like playing roleplaying games with their husbands/boyfriends/guy friends/children to get more face time with them.
• Offer family discounts on RPG products.
• Consider "Family Saturdays", giving free table space to families playing RPG's. (of course, you would have to crack down hard on anyone that cusses or swears, making sure no-tolerance signs are clearly posted.)
• Keep a computer in the store locked on to your website (disable external links and childproof it to your website). Customers could use the computer to order the discount products from your website in-store. (Of course, some customers will want you to do it for them, but that's fine too.)

I hope this helps.

 

[Charwoman Gene]

Anyone know a FLGS, y'know the Games-only, table-space kind that predates MtG and the upsurge in Warhammer?

I know lots of gaming-friendly comics and hobby shops... and johnny-com-lately FLGS's

 

[philreed]

My problem is, I *want* to keep supporting D&D, but the loss of business (explained perhaps better in the following paragraphs) makes the business side of me more tempted to rededicate the D&D space to other things that make more money...

That's a bad reason to do anything when it comes to a business. Personally, I want to spend my days writing new RPG material. I don't, because it was better for my business (and my family) if I slowed things down and took a day job. I still write and sometimes publish new material, but I can admit when a business has transitioned into a hobby.

If D&D doesn't make the cut in your store, don't use profits from your other lines to keep D&D in stock. Make each and every line you carry support itself.

If more RPG businesses were run like businesses, the entire industry would be in better shape.

 

[CountPopeula]

FLGS are dying. I have a pessimistic view that all forms of TT gaming are also going to die.... 4e may well be the last big RPG.

Maybe I'm just being all 'down' and stuff..... but I can't see any hobby competing with what the MMO market will be like in a decade.

Depends on how you define tabletop gaming. Does it include CCGs? Because Magic still does pretty good business. Miniature games? Warmachine, 40K, Anima Tactics, DDM, and Heroclix all seem to be doing well. Not HUGE, but well enough. Heck, even Anima: Tactics seems to be doing very well.

There's also a huge board game market well beyond Monopoly, Trivial Pursuit, and Cluedo. And non-collectable card games, and even classics with poker decks. On nights we planned on getting too drunk to play D&D, my group used to play bridge.

As the original topic of the FLGS... I have hundreds, maybe thousands of dollars of lead miniatures. Almost $500 just on Anima. I have four editions of D&D. I've been playing D&D since I was a sophomore in high school, so around 11 years. I've been in a game store exactly once, and I overpaid for a Sisters of Battle boxed set. You know how hard it is to overpay for Games Workshop stuff? I've done just fine without a local game shop, and I don't see any advantage to going there now.

 

[carmachu]

I should clarify: my business offers many good services; I focus on them. My customers who play in the store are loyal ones, who appreciate the space I devote to it. I

great, good for you. You seem like your on the ball. so dont take this personally:

most of us will NOT support a FLAG. Either because we have really bad local ones or very bad experiences with them. Thats the cold hard reality.

No, what I want--as a gamer and a game store owner--is people to support their FLGSes not to keep them afloat because without your business they would go under, but because the FLGS is important to the entire gaming community. Without support they're not necessarily going to go out of business, but rather go out of the business of //selling RPGs//, which turns them into UNfriendly local gaming stores.

Hate to be the bearer of bad news: but you arent that important to the community as you use to be. Why would I drive 30-45 minutes to the local flags to might find a half empty shelf of models or books when I can browse in my slippers and see every thing online?

Why do I want to come down to a store to try and find a group, only to find no one there, or you(a FLAG) have taken down the board that has gamers wanted?

Why would I come to a FLAG that has "gaming night" that runs from 6-9pm on a weekday night?

Most of us will NOT support a FLAGS because they arent worth supporting. This isnt personal or about you and your store. But support is a two way street that some of us HAVE NOT gotten.

When a store decided it didnt want our wargaming club anymore, when we bought in store, when we demo'd games, and was willing to lose almost 10% of its gross sales, enough is enough.

Some of us will NEVER support a FLAG again.

Perhaps I am also unique in being a gaming store that keeps a large variety of out-of-print and non-D&D/White Wolf RPG materials in store, as well. I should hope not, but that may be the case.

That might be a problem. you might have to condense it and use the space for something better. That just might be the reality.

 

[philreed]

That might be a problem. you might have to condense it and use the space for something better. That just might be the reality.

Exactly. RPGs eat a lot of shelf space. Retailers need to understand that space = money, and they need to use their space wisely.

Thousands of dollars worth of CCG product can easily fit in a space that holds a few hundred dollars worth of RPG product.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

The FLGS I used to frequent most often went out of business a few years back. The main reason was that the owners and staff were gamers, not business people. They couldn't keep the store up and be profitable. They had gaming space, they ran events all the time, but they bought stuff indiscriminately and had too much inventory that would not sell. They were nice people who loved gaming, but if I dropped in to pick up something on the way to my personal game, I sometimes had to wait five or ten minutes to get rung up because the person who was supposed to be working the register was busy chatting about some game, or trying to participate in one of the events they were running while working the store. The events they sponsored were often populated by the more stereotypical gamer type and they got loud and rude to the point where I would not enter the store if I had my kids with me because I was worried about the language they would probably hear being shouted. The owners ran a bad ship and in the end it killed them.

Oddly enough, another store nearby has been in business for quite a while now and seems to be doing well. They provide no space at all for games. I think they sponsor some Warhammer events, but they don't do it in the store. They carry the best selection of board games around along with jigsaw puzzles, some kids toys and collector chess sets. The store is fairly small and packed with goods to sell, but in a well-laid out manner so I can find what I need quickly if I want, or browse for a while I have the time. Because they don't run events, it is a place to shop, not a place to play. I have no problem bringing my kids with me into the store because I know it is unlikely they will see or hear inappropriate behavior. This benefits the store owners directly since I often will purchase some small item for my kids along with what I'm getting for myself.

In the end I don't think of them as a LGS, because they don't run the place like most LGSs I've encountered in the recent years. Instead they remind me of the hobby stores from days of yore, and I appreciate that.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

You HAVE my support and sympathy, as I have said, and wish to repeat.

Edena_of_Neith