Death of the LGS

[Jedi_Solo]

I didn't have any stores participate in Free RPG day in my area, but a friend of mine lived by two stores that did. A bunch of us got together and hung (and visited both stores for free stuff). The difference between the two stores was incredable and if I visited either one again I know which it would be.

The first location onlyhad a few of the free quick start guides left (and one WotC module). It was clean and well organized. Though I never been there before after a couple of minutes I pretty well had the layout figured out. It was well lit and had quite the friendly atmosphere. There had a Magic Tournament going in a decent sized gaming area. The staff had polo shirts as a kind of uniform; they were clean cut and quite friendly when we walked in. As we browsed for stuff to buy as athank you for free loot I'm fairly sure everyone in our five person group was asked if needed anything (there were two or three people staffing the store).

The second store we stopped by still had the WotC minis and Dungeon Tiles to give out (neither place had the dice interstingly enough). It was quite obvious why fewer people had stopped here. It wasn't nearly as well lit (it wasn't 'dark' but the light was definately dimmer). The front had (according to my friend) was just finishing some remodeling so the clutter there gets a pass, but even with that the back end "felt" dirtier that the first store. There was a gaming area (not enough room - but still...). There was one person manning store with an unkept beard. His clothes were clean but they were a T-Shirt and jeans. Nothing wrong per se with this - but compared to the polo shirt and khakis of the last place it seemed a step down, and I thought the one other person in the store when we walked in was staff until he left a few minutes later. The organization was cluttered to say the least. The comic books were very neatly organized but everything else felt like a missmash. The D&D books were on one shelf but the minis were else where (and so on).

I bought stuff at both locations to thank them for the free swag. I had never visited either location before so these were my first impressions. I know where my first stop would be if I was looking for something. The first store was cleaner, friendlier, better organized and came off as much more professional. It's a store that I would like to support and maybe the next time I'm visiting I may ask to head out there. The second location had a few more oddities and geeky stuff, but in the end I wasn't impressed.

The first location worked to give me a good impression and it did, I hope to at some point in the future help it survive. The second store was there and... well... that is about all I can say.

 

[Angel Tarragon]

Here is my problem I had 2 GSs, one Local and Friendly, the other one not so Friendly and not so local.

The one that was closer (the Game Daze at Fashion Square Mall went out of business), they were quite friendly with me and went out of their way to help me acquire OOP stuff and on the cheap too. I bought my copy of GURPS Traveller from them for about $7.50, in brand new condition no less.

The other Game Daze (the one at Paradise Valley Mall) can't keep product stocked. I'm surprised that when they moved to other end of the mall, they actually had enough revenue to pull it off. The day 4E was released I lucked out to be going to the store, but they didn't have it in stock. Regardless of the fact that I'm not switching to 4E, I do want the books so that I can liberally yoink from it what I do like for my 3E homebrew. Before that I had went to them to get my hands on KotS to preview 4E and that was on May 22nd. They didn't have it in stock! They had to special order it for me.

So really, I'm stuck using amazon because of rising gas prices and because idiot requisitioners.

 

[philreed]

So I put it to you: Support your LGS. It's the birthplace of the next generation of gamers, unless you really WANT 5.0 and 6.0 to become *completely* focused on duplicating MMORPGS because the only market left becomes people who play online.

It's not enough just to ask gamers to support you. You've got to support gamers. You need an open gaming area. You need to sell drinks and snacks. You need a sign that says "No Outside Food or Drinks." You need to stay open late enough that people can take advantage of your open gaming area.

You need in-store demos. Contact companies and ask for support. Run tournaments. Hand out prizes.

Become a destination site where gamers want to spend their weekends. A place where gamers want to actually play games.

These days, the best thing a store can provide is reliable, clean gaming space. A mini-con every day.

 

[Shining Dragon]

Strangely enough, any store (Borders mainly here in Sydney, haven't seen other large stores selling rpgs, at least within the past few years) that does sell RPGs sells them at a higher price than my LGS (and with the exchange rate for AUD changing over the years the books on Borders shelves stay highly priced whereas the prices at my LGSs drop).

I don't have an answer to online stores, my LGS (and other stores in Australia) also have an online presence although prices aren't discounted (just free shipping around Australia). With the better exchange rate I can now order stuff that I cannot get through my LGS (Spirit of the Century, for example).

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I'm afraid I have no sympathy. I've yet to have a LGS that provided sufficient services that I was willing to forgo the convenience and discount of online shopping for the majority of products. I've supported the one or two stores that did offer products that I couldn't get easily online (mostly out-of-print stuff), but it wasn't something I couldn't live without. I wasn't introduced to gaming via a LGS, yetI've introduced family and friends to gaming over the years, growing the hobby without a gaming store. I've gone my entire gaming career without needing a LGS, so if every one went out of business tomorrow I'm not sure I'd notice.

Frankly, I find the tactic of trying to guilt customers into supporting you -- rather than providing the goods and services that would cause them to support you freely -- to be only slightly less reprehensible than suing your customers for lack of support.

 

[Mark Hope]

I play in two groups at present - both owe their genesis to the internet, not to the flgs. In fact, I've never had a group that started because of an flgs, so my personal experience is not that the flgs is the cradle of gaming. I am lucky to have a very nice flgs, but I still get almost all of my gaming stuff online. Why? This is why:

... how can you compete with the online boys? They give 40% or 45% off most stuff and they bring it to your house. The latter is an added bonus because it probably costs me $4+ to take a trip to the LGS. So just add 5 bucks to the price of everything.

This is the absolute bottom line for me. If the online retailer were only offering 5%-10% off, then it would maybe be worth it to go to the flgs instead. But 40% or more? Sorry, but the flgs doesn't stand a chance. And I am sorry for you guys, I really am, but I can't afford to ignore savings of those kinds. Nobody needs reminding how tight money is these days, how expensive petrol is. But if I'm saving $15 on every purchase of a hardcover(or, rather, the equivalent in £s) then that's a no-brainer.

So all the other issues fall by the wayside when faced with the simple fact of economics. Good luck to you and all that, but that's the bottom line.

 

[noretoc]

I'm afraid I have no sympathy. I've yet to have a LGS that provided sufficient services that I was willing to forgo the convenience and discount of online shopping for the majority of products. I've supported the one or two stores that did offer products that I couldn't get easily online (mostly out-of-print stuff), but it wasn't something I couldn't live without. I wasn't introduced to gaming via a LGS, yetI've introduced family and friends to gaming over the years, growing the hobby without a gaming store. I've gone my entire gaming career without needing a LGS, so if every one went out of business tomorrow I'm not sure I'd notice.

Frankly, I find the tactic of trying to guilt customers into supporting you -- rather than providing the goods and services that would cause them to support you freely -- to be only slightly less reprehensible than suing your customers for lack of support.

Wow that was rough. Unfortunatley I agree in a less scathing way. I have had a few local stores where I live. One of them is run by a couple of people who care more about being in charge then getting you what you want. That have foolish rules, and treat thier customers like children. Another one, sells more than just game. He sells sci-fi/fantasy books (used and new) and allows trade. He sells shirts, novelties all game related. I go there as often as I can. Unfortunatley that store is 30 mins away, and the cost in gas makes it thet much harder to spend what little dispoable income I do have there.

If you want more customers, make you store a place your customers want to go. If you are having trouble learning how to do that, you might be in the wrong business.

 

[Storminator]

I suggest that you put a link to your store in your sig. And put your location in your profile.

At let us look you up while you're posting!

PS

 

[pg13]

I have sympathy. Little good it'll do, but I do have sympathy.

There's no point in counting on loyalty to an outdated business model. It didn't work for independent book stores, it didn't work for independent music retailers...it won't work in the hobby/game industry.

But, like I said...I have sympathy--as I was a manager at a very cool independent music retailer in Seattle for ten years...and we recognized that there were areas in which we simply could not compete with the Big Box stores or the on-line behemoths.

Tout as we might our superior service and product knowledge, there's no way to make someone buy something that is more expensive from you, and certainly not based on any sense of assumed loyalty or inherent obligation.

The only useful product purchasing decision you might have an edge on, against the dominant factor of price, is convenience--and that's assuming that you actually have the product that a customer wants at the exact moment that they want it. No one is going to special order something from you that they could order from Amazon at a discount.

That doesn't mean that there isn't value in service or product knowledge--the key to any independent retailer is in using your superior product knowledge to help an indecisive consumer make decisions...to suggest additional or alternate products that no program could make a similar connection.

...but the simple truth is that this is a war of attrition that the independent retailer is unlikely to survive.

The larger truth is that as a business owner, you aren't entitled to be a profitable enterprise. You, like every business, have to figure out if there is something that you can offer that enough people want to pay you for...(and specifically you...not someone else...and certainly not "no one".) If there is, and you let them know you have it and you make it available to them in a way that they can, in fact, pay you for it...then you're good for the moment--but it's a Sisyphean struggle that will NEVER end.

pg--Happy to have joined enworld, sorry for the lengthy first post.--seattle

PS--I grew up in a small town in Wisconsin. We didn't have a game store when I was in junior high and the D&D thing happened. We had a hobby/craft store that stocked the OD&D pamphlets...and then the blue box...and then the AD&D books. No product knowledge, no suggestive sales...just a box full of stuff that the people buying pipe cleaners, styrofoam balls and yarn happened to have in their store.

I don't visit my home town often, but the last time I did, I noticed that the hobby/craft store is still there...but they haven't sold gaming supplies in over twenty years.

PPS--The music retailer that I helped manage eventually did give up a couple of years ago. They gave it a good run...and, I think that with a couple of tweaks, could still be in business today...but you need to have the enthusiasm to enter the battle...and willing to adapt to an ever shifting battlefield.

Long gone are the days when an independent retailer could even dream of just sitting back, getting fat and raking in the money... Barring another Magic-esque cash cow, profit margins are going to be thin and frightening. Time to min/max your adventuring attributes, retailers!

 

[DaveMage]

Sorry - as cold as it sounds, I don't need an LGS.

The internet has made such a place irrelevant to me.

LGS product is overpriced and the selection can't compare to online vendors.