Death of the LGS

[Dannyalcatraz]

You can't keep consuming out of proportion to actual income for too long. Eventually mom and dad will not be subsidize
their buying habits.

True, but here's the thing...only a fraction of them are currently drawing a salary, and their overall numbers are equal to or greater than the Baby Boomers.

Once they're all paying their own way, mom & dad will be irrelevant. They'll be the single biggest demographic out there. By far.

 

[rjdafoe]

Exactly. Just like Shell, Unico, and other gasoline vendors keep prices down due to competition.
RC

That is a terrible analogy for your arugument.

Most states have a law that no one must sell gas at below a minumin price, based upon an average of what the stations pay in the state. It has been that way for years, fully regulated like you want, and it has not worked.

Jiffylube: The started out undercutting oil changes. The second they came to dominate the market, the prices rose dramatically.

And that has nothing do do with the cost of oil in the last 8 years?

 

[mlund]

The fact of the matter is that there is absolutely no reason to buy certain products from local retailers. All the talk about job-loss and the death of Main Street is a pile of horse-hockey. There's no reason for a Main Street full of businesses that do nothing more than play middle-man, buying from a distributor and selling on a mark-up. The idea that something like that has to exist is driven by reactionary fears, nostalgia, and a very short-sighted view of history.

"Main Street" killed the "Market Place" model that existed for centuries prior to that. Back in the 70s and 80s everyone pitched a reactionary fit over the "Shopping Mall" model that "threatened to destroy Main Street" and in the 90s people branded "Big Box Stores" the Devil (though they are always sure to mention Wal-Mart by name and never Target). In this new century people are worried about the Internet Business. So it goes, ever on.

When you sell a product that needs no supporting services and is can be shopped for sight unseen you're playing the Cost vs. Convenience game. When you try to move a big-ticket item at at 40% more than the competition can do while still turning a profit, you lose. You deserve to lose. Crying to the government to impose price controls makes you an even bigger loser. Little-ticket items can be sold at bigger margins for convenience (pay $1 for a pencil at a game store or candy) because someone's time is worth more to them than the $0.50 they could save buying from the lowest bidder.

Frankly, if the draw of the Game Store is Convenience and Service, then you need to sell Convenience and Service. The points made about good customer service habits is critical. A clean, inviting atmosphere is crucial. Use of service facilities such as table space need to be tied to either fees or retail dollars. Game stores can make money off of tournaments and hosting - something Online Retailers and Big Box Stores can't do. You've also got the inside line on small-ticket sales for accessories, food, and beverages. You must capitalize on these!

I remember visiting a place in New Mexico for an L5R Kotei and being taken aback at it. The place was basically a coffee bistro with retail shelves in the back half of the area. The tables were just as good for eating, drinking, and doing the crossword puzzle as they were for slapping down cards or going on a dungeon crawl. The place was clean, santitary, and had well-dressed and well-mannered support staff. They had free refills on soda purchases during tournament events. Yes, their coffee, soda, cookies, etc. were overpriced compared to the grocery stores down the street but they did a very brisk business because they understood their business model.

A lot of LGS and Main Street shops never understood the fundamental underpinnings of their business model in the market. That's why they failed so spectacularly.

- Marty Lund

 

[Rhianni32]

Just took a look at your website....

1: Looking at the calendar of events it looks like you have plenty of events going on and on almost every day.

2: The logo is really driving me nuts. it looks stretched out and forced in there.

3: It looks like you are getting in new lines of products. comics and movies. I dont want to buy comics from store 1 then go to store 2 for roleplaying books. I'll go to store 3 even if its farther.

4: Your site needs more information. Look at the events page I read this
"
D&D Miniatures

Wednesdays at 7pm. No entry fee. "

Is this a sanctioned event? is it a tournament with prizes? Does it take up the entire play area and what if my friends and I want to play something different that isnt listed. I see that the mechwarrior event below is sanctioned so that does help. The events I looked at didnt list prizes which would be nice.

5: Is the $30 previously spent on items the previous month going to turn into a bookeeping nightmare for you?


6: Your store is starting to sound like a great place to go and hang out at and spend money. From most of the comments in this thread I think its important to understand that the consumer isnt heartless and only greedy for the lowest deal. We just need reasons for giving you money vs the next guy.

 

[Korgoth]

The fact of the matter is that there is absolutely no reason to buy certain products from local retailers. All the talk about job-loss and the death of Main Street is a pile of horse-hockey. There's no reason for a Main Street full of businesses that do nothing more than play middle-man, buying from a distributor and selling on a mark-up. The idea that something like that has to exist is driven by reactionary fears, nostalgia, and a very short-sighted view of history.

"Main Street" killed the "Market Place" model that existed for centuries prior to that. Back in the 70s and 80s everyone pitched a reactionary fit over the "Shopping Mall" model that "threatened to destroy Main Street" and in the 90s people branded "Big Box Stores" the Devil (though they are always sure to mention Wal-Mart by name and never Target). In this new century people are worried about the Internet Business. So it goes, ever on.

When you sell a product that needs no supporting services and is can be shopped for sight unseen you're playing the Cost vs. Convenience game. When you try to move a big-ticket item at at 40% more than the competition can do while still turning a profit, you lose. You deserve to lose. Crying to the government to impose price controls makes you an even bigger loser. Little-ticket items can be sold at bigger margins for convenience (pay $1 for a pencil at a game store or candy) because someone's time is worth more to them than the $0.50 they could save buying from the lowest bidder.

Frankly, if the draw of the Game Store is Convenience and Service, then you need to sell Convenience and Service. The points made about good customer service habits is critical. A clean, inviting atmosphere is crucial. Use of service facilities such as table space need to be tied to either fees or retail dollars. Game stores can make money off of tournaments and hosting - something Online Retailers and Big Box Stores can't do. You've also got the inside line on small-ticket sales for accessories, food, and beverages. You must capitalize on these!

I remember visiting a place in New Mexico for an L5R Kotei and being taken aback at it. The place was basically a coffee bistro with retail shelves in the back half of the area. The tables were just as good for eating, drinking, and doing the crossword puzzle as they were for slapping down cards or going on a dungeon crawl. The place was clean, santitary, and had well-dressed and well-mannered support staff. They had free refills on soda purchases during tournament events. Yes, their coffee, soda, cookies, etc. were overpriced compared to the grocery stores down the street but they did a very brisk business because they understood their business model.

A lot of LGS and Main Street shops never understood the fundamental underpinnings of their business model in the market. That's why they failed so spectacularly.

- Marty Lund

Preach on, brother. The LGS is just a middle man. The internet has given consumers the power to bypass the middle man (whose economic role appears increasingly parasitic) and go almost straight to the source. This gives access to cheaper products and thus the consumer can stretch his dollar a bit farther (very important nowadays).

It amazes me that some people in this thread have gone so far as to advocate a limited socialism for use as a weapon by the shopowners against the working class consumer. Actually, that sounds somewhat familiar....

Bottom line: if your crummy, dinosauric business is failing, don't call in the Pinkertons to beat money out of the working stiffs. Instead, try making your business a place that I actually want to shop.

Most game stores these days are boutiques. Boutiques are for rich people. Most gamers are not rich people. On the other hand, I like this notion of "Game Store as Game Cafe". That makes sense to me.

Will I buy a set of hardbacks at the game store for $105 that I can buy online for $60? Nope. And until the Sturmabteilung shows up to shut down consumer-friendly capitalism, I don't have to. But if the game store sells mechanical pencils, graph paper, character sheets, DM screens, coffee, pizza, measuring tape, rulers, dry erase boards, folders, binders, note pads, sodas, potato chips and huge quantities of dice? You betcha. And then, while I'm there buying those items and gaming (assuming a nice atmosphere, etc.) maybe I will end up buying impulse items or obscure items that the online stores don't have or haven't bothered to discount. Add that to a nice stock of used items (because who uses Ebay except because they have to?) and we've got a recipe for success.

But that all takes work and thought. As opposed to just wanting the government to come in and fix it by putting the screws on some other schlub (that lowest schlub of all, in fact: the customer).

 

[gamersgambit]

I can't believe how many fallacies are contained in mlund and Korgoth's assertions.

"There's no reason for a Main Street full of businesses that do nothing more than play middle-man, buying from a distributor and selling on a mark-up."

Pretty much *EVERY* retailer buys from distributors and sells on a mark-up, including Amazon. The *particular* market I am talking about in this post is *RPG Books* which have cover prices set by the publisher and printed on the damn books. It's not a *markup* in the sense that we're gouging customers.

See re: Amazon and deep discounting loss leaders.

"and in the 90s people branded "Big Box Stores" the Devil (though they are always sure to mention Wal-Mart by name and never Target). ".

Do your research about WalMart *AND* Target. Target is hardly pristine in its practices or contributions to urban sprawl. But that's neither here nor there. Even were they pristine examples of good business practices, that doesn't excuse the tailspin they're putting the economy through.

People don't think enough about economic modelling, largely due to the conceit that capitalism as it is defined in the American mold is the ideal path to wealth and prosperity. Has it not occurred to anyone, for instance, that the reason that deep-discounted big-box retailers are so popular is because //people are getting poorer//? Is there no correlation between the two?


"And until the Sturmabteilung shows up to shut down consumer-friendly capitalism, I don't have to."

I feel special, the thread I started has finally hit the Godwin's Law threshhold!

 

[Korgoth]

I feel special, the thread I started has finally hit the Godwin's Law threshhold!

Hey, I'm not the one who suggested that the government clamp down on favorable discounts to prop up the failure of the LGS.

Show some consistency. Do you want the government to clamp down on deep discounts or not? If you do, you're essentially saying that you want to use state power to prop up your failing business model. If you don't then I have no argument with you.

As to the question of markups. Yes, Amazon has a markup. It is much smaller than your markup. Therefore they are a better middle man than you. Period.

And as to that cover price "set by the publisher and printed on the damn books": what does MSRP stand for? Do you know? I'm guessing that you do know what it stands for.

 

[Mallus]

[tangent]Call me a luddite if you wish, but I buy almost all of my music in music stores, in CD form.[/tangent]

You're a Luddite because you want your music on a silvery disk read by a laser. That's awesome.

Welcome to the future!

 

[drothgery]

Do your research about WalMart *AND* Target. Target is hardly pristine in its practices or contributions to urban sprawl.

Urban sprawl is caused by people getting richer and having access to better transportation in environments where it's possible to move into less densely populated suburbs. It's been happening for centuries, and will happen in every growing city where government regulation or geography fails to prevent it because most people with kids like having space.

But this is veering dangerously close to violating the 'no politics on ENWorld' rule.

 

[mlund]

I can't believe how many fallacies are contained in mlund and Korgoth's assertions.

Actually, I regret to inform you that you are the one imposing fallacies on the discussion. I feel for you, truly. I love my FLGS. I just understand the distinctions between a terrible business model and a viable one. I went to school for this sort of thing.

"There's no reason for a Main Street full of businesses that do nothing more than play middle-man, buying from a distributor and selling on a mark-up."

Pretty much *EVERY* retailer buys from distributors and sells on a mark-up, including Amazon. The *particular* market I am talking about in this post is *RPG Books* which have cover prices set by the publisher and printed on the damn books. It's not a *markup* in the sense that we're gouging customers.

See, I never said anything about "gouging" anyone.

The argument that they "have cover priced set by the publisher and printed on the damn books," is a fallacious argument. I see no justification for expecting anyone to sell the "damn books," for that price in the United States.

Moreover, you still haven't addressed the issue at hand: If you only play middle-man, providing no service and adding no value to the product, no one should buy from you if someone else has a lower price.

The point being made is that businesses that refuse to engage in adding value or providing services live and die on price alone. A lot of businesses on the Main Street of my old town tried to operate this way and died out because of it. Those that figured out how to add value or provide services did well for themselves.

I'm not even going to get into the foolishness of anti-free-market rhetoric and slander against competing businesses that might appeal to the Noam Chomsky and Saul Alinsky disciples in the audience. Find better ways to compete or get out of the market. No one is entitled to make a living doing nothing but re-selling D&D books at full retail price out of a brick-and-mortar store front.

This kind of reminds me of the griping that went on when the concept of renting video games was going to kill off the game industry, or how the VCR was going to destroy television.

If you want to gripe about things, leave the pro-union stumping and the command economy junk at the door and focus on the selling-for-a-loss tactics and the evasion of Sales Tax that some of these online retailers exploit. You'd be best served building the better mouse-trap, though. Your business model should not be predicated on retail sales in a vacuum, but rather adding value and services that generate income and facilitate some of those sales.

- Marty Lund