Death Spiral vs Starting at 1st Level - X-post from 'Death by Infelicitas'

[S'mon]

As a player, I have no interest in running around with a stack of DMPCs. As a DM, I have no interest in managing a stack of DMPCs that the PCs have recruited. A (single) temporary tagalong is fine and not at all uncommon, but our playstyle -- and I suspect a fair percentage of folks' -- generally does not involve the party having a bunch of groupies constantly in tow, for both narrative and logistical reasons.

In Labyrinth Lord and other hardcore old school games, you really need to have those henchmen along on most adventures; without them you're very unlikely to survive. Player normally runs them in combat, the logistics are pretty trivial when a stat block is Ftr 1 AC 4 hp 5 dam 1d8.

My Pathfinder BB group does not use henchmen though, even though they are available as 'grogs'.

 

[Agamon]

As a player, I have no interest in running around with a stack of DMPCs. As a DM, I have no interest in managing a stack of DMPCs that the PCs have recruited. A (single) temporary tagalong is fine and not at all uncommon, but our playstyle -- and I suspect a fair percentage of folks' -- generally does not involve the party having a bunch of groupies constantly in tow, for both narrative and logistical reasons.

They aren't DMPCs. I have no interest in running a bunch of NPCs either, the players run their own henchmen in combat.

And as I said, it's a play style thing. Not everyone's cup of tea, I'm sure. That's why the term OSR exists, if everyone agreed, it wouldn't be necessary.

 

[kitsune9]

I don't mind playing with death spirals.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

There is no Death Spiral. There is only the Circle of Achievement.

Death Spirograph?

 

[Jhaelen]

Instead of the on-level grind of CR matched encounters & death spiral if you die, you instead get a virtuous circle effect - 1st level is survivable, with luck, but the more levels you get, the better your survival chances. Although if you are 4th level and adventuring with 1st level newbies, you probably won't die but you won't level fast, either. If a group of PCs reach 4th level together, they can then seek out tougher challenges.

Obviously this does not allow for Adventure Paths, but for sandbox play IME 'start at 1st level' works brilliantly

Well, we used to play like this in the old'n days. And while the players usually didn't seem to mind, it eventually became a problem for the GMs:

It inevitably led to the GMs getting bored: "So, you head out to slay a bunch of goblins... ...again!" GMs were eager to move on, to bring the campaign to the next level, to try out tougher opponents.

Imho, it was the reason why we never managed to actually 'finish' a campaign, all of them fizzled after one to two years.

I guess, none of us were big sandbox fans.

It's good to hear it's working for you, though. How long's your campaign been going?

 

[S'mon]

Well, we used to play like this in the old'n days. And while the players usually didn't seem to mind, it eventually became a problem for the GMs:

It inevitably led to the GMs getting bored: "So, you head out to slay a bunch of goblins... ...again!" GMs were eager to move on, to bring the campaign to the next level, to try out tougher opponents.

Imho, it was the reason why we never managed to actually 'finish' a campaign, all of them fizzled after one to two years.

I guess, none of us were big sandbox fans.

It's good to hear it's working for you, though. How long's your campaign been going?

If you think in terms of "finishing the campaign" then you are playing more Adventure Path style, and starting at 1st level won't work. I think a single party XP tally is best for that sort of play, as in my 4e FR Loudwater campaign.

My first start at 1st level Pathfinder Beginner Box campaign had its first session February 2012, so far the highest level reached has been 4th. My Labyrinth Lord game started June/July AIR. I wouldn't expect either to be going more than two years in their current forms.