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December 1st UA Spell changes
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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8857348" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>So the solution is to nerf the only thing that is at the proper power level, instead of buffing the rest? Again, my position isn't that I left everything else alone and kept the basic Healing Spirit. My position is I kept the basic healing spirit, it hasn't caused any issues at any table I've used it at, AND I've buffed other healing. </p><p></p><p>Now, I haven't been able to test my buffed healing spells, but that's just a lack of players at the moment. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Because when I build a cleric or a druid, I do not determine the AC of my allies. In fact, I have very limited control over my allies abilities at all. The only way I have any control over them is to buff them. And buffing is not healing. </p><p></p><p>So it seems a bit strange to base the effectiveness of my character off of someone else's character choices. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Haven't read Max's yet, but I'll grab these points separately. </p><p></p><p>Sure, it can heal the damage on one person. But a single target spell like Magic Missiles or Guiding Bolt does too much damage for Cure Wounds to heal. The point was to demonstrate 1) That I have referenced AOE saves before, so complaining about them now is silly and 2) That there are many spells at 1st level that deal more damage than Cure Wounds heals... like all of them.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Why should a party with a dedicated healer be scared? Is a party with a dedicated Face scared about failing basic social encounters? Is a party with a dedicated explorer scared about leaving town? Those may be just basic, easy things.... but we are talking about the most basic role of healers. Restoring hp caused by damage. </p><p></p><p>Also, it is interesting that you refer to Cure Wounds as "the most basic healing spell". It is accurate to a degree. Do you know what you could also call it? The strongest single target healing spell until Life Transference. And until Life Transference was added to the game, it was the strongest single target healing spell until Heal. </p><p></p><p>I mean, look at the list. Healing word is weaker. Goodberry is spread over multiple targets generally, at the very least it takes 10 actions. Prayer of Healing is multi-target and only heals as much as Cure wounds. Aura of Vitality could be stronger, but it is often spread over multiple turns and multiple targets, and the base line 2d6 is about the same as Cure Wounds at level 1. Mass Healing Word? Mass Cure Wounds? There is no stronger healing spell in the game for a single target until Heal. </p><p></p><p>Meanwhile, does Guiding Bolt remain the single best single target damage? Not by a long-shot. First of all, it is beaten by Inflict Wounds at 1st level. But you eventually get to things like Disintegrate which do massive damage. </p><p></p><p></p><p>And just to make my position clear, I'm only advocating for making healing spells good enough to cancel a single turn of a single monster in combat. So if you still want that clock, then you just need to have have two monsters of appropriate CR instead of one. Which you already likely did, because you need to match the parties potential action economy. There are other solutions for making the player's feel pressure than just making the damage higher. There are a lot of things I DON'T use, because they would wreck the party with little ability for them to counter-play. Heck, I realized I've almost never used enemy healers, because they aren't worth the time and effort to put on the field.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 8857348, member: 6801228"] So the solution is to nerf the only thing that is at the proper power level, instead of buffing the rest? Again, my position isn't that I left everything else alone and kept the basic Healing Spirit. My position is I kept the basic healing spirit, it hasn't caused any issues at any table I've used it at, AND I've buffed other healing. Now, I haven't been able to test my buffed healing spells, but that's just a lack of players at the moment. Because when I build a cleric or a druid, I do not determine the AC of my allies. In fact, I have very limited control over my allies abilities at all. The only way I have any control over them is to buff them. And buffing is not healing. So it seems a bit strange to base the effectiveness of my character off of someone else's character choices. Haven't read Max's yet, but I'll grab these points separately. Sure, it can heal the damage on one person. But a single target spell like Magic Missiles or Guiding Bolt does too much damage for Cure Wounds to heal. The point was to demonstrate 1) That I have referenced AOE saves before, so complaining about them now is silly and 2) That there are many spells at 1st level that deal more damage than Cure Wounds heals... like all of them. Why should a party with a dedicated healer be scared? Is a party with a dedicated Face scared about failing basic social encounters? Is a party with a dedicated explorer scared about leaving town? Those may be just basic, easy things.... but we are talking about the most basic role of healers. Restoring hp caused by damage. Also, it is interesting that you refer to Cure Wounds as "the most basic healing spell". It is accurate to a degree. Do you know what you could also call it? The strongest single target healing spell until Life Transference. And until Life Transference was added to the game, it was the strongest single target healing spell until Heal. I mean, look at the list. Healing word is weaker. Goodberry is spread over multiple targets generally, at the very least it takes 10 actions. Prayer of Healing is multi-target and only heals as much as Cure wounds. Aura of Vitality could be stronger, but it is often spread over multiple turns and multiple targets, and the base line 2d6 is about the same as Cure Wounds at level 1. Mass Healing Word? Mass Cure Wounds? There is no stronger healing spell in the game for a single target until Heal. Meanwhile, does Guiding Bolt remain the single best single target damage? Not by a long-shot. First of all, it is beaten by Inflict Wounds at 1st level. But you eventually get to things like Disintegrate which do massive damage. And just to make my position clear, I'm only advocating for making healing spells good enough to cancel a single turn of a single monster in combat. So if you still want that clock, then you just need to have have two monsters of appropriate CR instead of one. Which you already likely did, because you need to match the parties potential action economy. There are other solutions for making the player's feel pressure than just making the damage higher. There are a lot of things I DON'T use, because they would wreck the party with little ability for them to counter-play. Heck, I realized I've almost never used enemy healers, because they aren't worth the time and effort to put on the field. [/QUOTE]
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