OneDnD December 1st UA Spell changes

Gadget

Adventurer
Any thoughts on the spell changes in the new UA?

I think the Guidance and Resistance changes are long overdue, though you could still spam Guidance all day if you wanted to; that may cause some heartburn at many tables. I think Spiritual Weapon and Banishment will be the more controversial spell changes (with maybe Aid thrown in by some).

Personally, I think the Spiritual Weapon one was a bit overdue, as running that along with Spirit Guardians was almost mandatory. Yet one could argue that Spirit Guardians was the one that needed to be reigned in and Spiritual Weapon is now overshadowed by the 1st level Bless, as they are both competing for concentration. Should Bless have been toned down?

Having seen Guidance and Resistance, do we think True Strike and possibly Blade Ward will follow the same pattern?
 

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Stalker0

Legend
Yet one could argue that Spirit Guardians was the one that needed to be reigned in and Spiritual Weapon is now overshadowed by the 1st level Bless, as they are both competing for concentration. Should Bless have been toned down?
This is my perspective. If WOTC had nerfed spirit guardians, spirtual weapon, and bless, but buff a number of other spells....I could dig it. That would shake up the cleric a bit, which would be great.

But this is just a lame change. Spiritual weapon won't see much see in comparison now that it fights for the all important concentration slot. I think it will be bless and SG all the way.
 

Stalker0

Legend
I also feel the guidance in the last packet was a lot better. It just did the job, removed any arguments at the table, gave a solid benefit, reigned it in to actual cantrip levels.

This version returns to spam but now adds arguments about how close the party is at all times.

Player: "Of course I waiting for the cleric to be nearby before I climbed that wall!"
"Of course the cleric was right near me when I bluffed that guy"
"I'm going to disable this trap, oh cleric buddy, come here!"

Its just silly. the last version was much better.
 

I think Guidance as a reaction (and one that doesn't even break concentration) makes the spell substantially more powerful and less evocative of the ludonarrative they are trying to tell with it. If it comes after the act it feels like it should be renamed "Mercy" or some such. That said I understand in its existing form it was a huge drain on some tables (only ever a minor annoyance at most at some of mine), and I don't think it's game breakingly powerful as reformulated, so I can see the benefits in that decision.

I do think the 10 foot range is highly unfortunate, as now we get arguments about previously irrelevant positioning during social and exploration encounters as the new locus for Guidance based slow-downs. It should be 60+ ft if they actually want to streamline play, which would be the justification for changing it to a reaction.

I find the "failed" an ability check language unfortunate wording the WotC has become attached to lately. It used to be that the DM did not have to declare explicitly whether there was a failure, success, or some result on a spectrum of failure and success, now I think in trying to get away from the "after you know the roll but before the result" language which I guess was causing trouble at some small minority of tables, they have gone with "after a failure" formulations that if some player wants to rules lawyer them really cramp my own particular DMing style of just sort of saying what happens based on that result and not always being explicit as to whether it was a failure or success. And in the case of Guidance, since it's a cantrip, the "failed" limitation really serves no purpose, as throwing extra d4s on top of successes is not a problem.
 

I also feel the guidance in the last packet was a lot better. It just did the job, removed any arguments at the table, gave a solid benefit, reigned it in to actual cantrip levels.

This version returns to spam but now adds arguments about how close the party is at all times.

Player: "Of course I waiting for the cleric to be nearby before I climbed that wall!"
"Of course the cleric was right near me when I bluffed that guy"
"I'm going to disable this trap, oh cleric buddy, come here!"

Its just silly. the last version was much better.
it has a verbal and somatic component. good luck with bluffing
 

Galandris

Foggy Bottom Campaign Setting Fan
it has a verbal and somatic component. good luck with bluffing

Constantly muttering prayers while holding a rosary is absolutely not suspect. Having a religious friend besides you isn't either. In both these cases we don't mind in real life. The only thing that might give it is if your religious friend is knotted to you by a 10' rope.
 

Clint_L

Hero
The new Aid is not great. 5 temp HP for a second level spell slot is pretty weak. Now you could argue that it is really 30 HPs proactive healing, but that is only if you have 6 targets (in my home games, we generally have 4 players) and only if they all take 5 damage or more. Realistically this is probably going to average out to 10-15 HP of meaningful damage reduction per use. That's not much.
 

Constantly muttering prayers while holding a rosary is absolutely not suspect. Having a religious friend besides you isn't either. In both these cases we don't mind in real life. The only thing that might give it is if your religious friend is knotted to you by a 10' rope.

It might or might not be suspect... i think it is...
 

I think Guidance as a reaction (and one that doesn't even break concentration) makes the spell substantially more powerful and less evocative of the ludonarrative they are trying to tell with it. If it comes after the act it feels like it should be renamed "Mercy" or some such. That said I understand in its existing form it was a huge drain on some tables (only ever a minor annoyance at most at some of mine), and I don't think it's game breakingly powerful as reformulated, so I can see the benefits in that decision.

I do think the 10 foot range is highly unfortunate, as now we get arguments about previously irrelevant positioning during social and exploration encounters as the new locus for Guidance based slow-downs. It should be 60+ ft if they actually want to streamline play, which would be the justification for changing it to a reaction.

I think the 10ft requirement actually makes that spell rather balanced. So you at least have to have your guidance bot near you when you try to hide...
 

SakanaSensei

Adventurer
Constantly muttering prayers while holding a rosary is absolutely not suspect. Having a religious friend besides you isn't either. In both these cases we don't mind in real life. The only thing that might give it is if your religious friend is knotted to you by a 10' rope.
I would be very put off/uncomfortable if I was talking with someone armed to the teeth and their similarly armed to the teeth friend was sitting there chanting to a god I may or may not follow.
 

Xamnam

Loves Your Favorite Game
I would be very put off/uncomfortable if I was talking with someone armed to the teeth and their similarly armed to the teeth friend was sitting there chanting to a god I may or may not follow.
Especially if you live in a world where that god/that god's power might actively intervene at any moment in response.
 

Player: "Of course I waiting for the cleric to be nearby before I climbed that wall!"
"Of course the cleric was right near me when I bluffed that guy"
"I'm going to disable this trap, oh cleric buddy, come here!"

Look gods only have a 10 foot range from their chosen vessels in which to dispense their graces. Anything more would just be ridiculous, obviously.
 

Spiritual weapon is a pretty bad spell, now. I think shadow blade is slightly overrated for most casters, but it’s brilliant compared to spiritual weapon.
 

I think the 10ft requirement actually makes that spell rather balanced. So you at least have to have your guidance bot near you when you try to hide...
Balance wise it's reasonable. The issue is that it replaces one way the spell was an annoying nuissance that engendered endless debates with a new way for it to be an annoying nuissance that engenders endless debates. Original formula annoying Guidance at least had a better ludonarrative (priest bestows minor skill blessing on friend, rather than priest invokes divine ward against friend's failure at last second but only up to a ten foot range). At the end of the day I'd rather it just be a little more overpowered and not slow down gameplay. Or not exist.
 

Spiritual weapon is a pretty bad spell, now. I think shadow blade is slightly overrated for most casters, but it’s brilliant compared to spiritual weapon.
It remains a solid spell choice, and not remotely "bad". It is, however, now just another spell giving a way to do ongoing bonus action damage, rather than the undisputed king of such spells, frequently cited as a major draw for the Cleric class and a top contender for anyone who gets to poach Cleric spells to poach. It has gone from a top spell to an ordinary and balanced one.

Despite my calling it "balanced" I do not necessarily consider that a good thing for the game, when the balancing takes the form of nerfing an iconic, go-to power spell down to a boring average one.
 

We can guess blade ward working as resistance but for a hit on an attack roll.
If they do they will certainly give a try for True strike giving a d4 on a miss for an attack roll using a reaction.

Banishment was a pure gold spell. Nerf is a good thing.
 

Balance wise it's reasonable. The issue is that it replaces one way the spell was an annoying nuissance that engendered endless debates with a new way for it to be an annoying nuissance that engenders endless debates. Original formula annoying Guidance at least had a better ludonarrative (priest bestows minor skill blessing on friend, rather than priest invokes divine ward against friend's failure at last second but only up to a ten foot range). At the end of the day I'd rather it just be a little more overpowered and not slow down gameplay. Or not exist.

I do agree.
Maybe it should be precast and cost an action to mantain each round and you need to stay in 30 ft or 60 ft range.
Like a good version of witchbolt.

So the narrative is that the cleric needs to pray for the duration of the action.
 


FireLance

Legend
I am personally inclined for guidance and resistance to be cast on holy symbols and last eight hours. Then when the wearer of the holy symbol fails a skill check or a saving throw, they can choose to activate the spell and then cannot benefit from the spell again until they have taken a long rest. So, when a cleric gives you a holy symbol and says, "May [deity] guide/protect you," it's not just empty words.
 

t remains a solid spell choice, and not remotely "bad".
I mean, there's no "fact of the matter" here, but I don't think there's anything remotely "solid" about it. A 1d8+mod bonus action attack for a 2nd level slot and concentration is bad. You're never casting this if you're trying to even vaguely optimize spellcasting.
 

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