D&D 5E Order Vs Twilight Cleric. Neo Warlord Abuse?

Zardnaar

Legend
A warlord in 4e almost always had the highest at will power damage because you let your highest damage ally swing while adding a damage bonus to that. It could be a really high bonus because you didn’t have to focus on main stat and could focus on secondary stat bonuses. You had good heals and other buffs on top of that (like initiative buffs). Etc. was it the strongest class ever? Maybe, maybe not, but it was dang strong and as the geico commercial says - it was so easy a caveman could do it.

Note when I say at will attack granting is overpowered I'm only talking about 5E.

1. You can double dip the sneak attack action and reaction.

2. Sneak attack hits a lot harder in 5E.

And if its not sneak attack its something else like the -5/+10 feats.

It's probably rare but I've seen a well played battlemaster in action and played the order cleric.

There's probably a build in there somewhere.
 

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FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
It's competing with radiance of the dawn and bless with voice of authority.

It's more complete package though ex flying, dark vision and slowing the game down.
Yes, but it's also not head and shoulders above the others - maybe better, it's debatable but not that much better (except maybe at low levels). That temp hp matters alot there!
 

Ancalagon

Dusty Dragon
My experience with twilight cleric is limited to tier 2 - I ran a short campaign, a 2e adventure Dungeon Magazine I converted to 5e and I had run previously (both in 2e and 5e), called "My lady's mirror". (I recommend it, the map is great and it has great NPCs/foes).

The party consisted of a bladesinger, 2 druids (land (arctic) and shepherd) and the twilight cleric.

The twilight aura (temp HP) was astonishingly good. It really propped up the bladesinger, who had high AC but low hp for a front liner, and it made the druid's conjured animals very resilient. Add to that the ability to counter fear/charm when it came up....

At one point they were fighting a necromancer who fled, but hit the party with evard's black tentacle as a parting gift, hitting the entire party. Normally this would be quite the problem (esp with the caster being gone, can't break concentration). But when you're getting 1d6+6 temp hp a round, suddenly the "help I'm stuck and I'm taking 3d6 damage a round!" experience becomes far less urgent and more of an annoyance...

I don't know how impactful this would be at higher tiers of play. But at tier 2, it's very good, and it's outright broken if another party member(s!) is a good "minion summoner".
 

Zardnaar

Legend
My experience with twilight cleric is limited to tier 2 - I ran a short campaign, a 2e adventure Dungeon Magazine I converted to 5e and I had run previously (both in 2e and 5e), called "My lady's mirror". (I recommend it, the map is great and it has great NPCs/foes).

The party consisted of a bladesinger, 2 druids (land (arctic) and shepherd) and the twilight cleric.

The twilight aura (temp HP) was astonishingly good. It really propped up the bladesinger, who had high AC but low hp for a front liner, and it made the druid's conjured animals very resilient. Add to that the ability to counter fear/charm when it came up....

At one point they were fighting a necromancer who fled, but hit the party with evard's black tentacle as a parting gift, hitting the entire party. Normally this would be quite the problem (esp with the caster being gone, can't break concentration). But when you're getting 1d6+6 temp hp a round, suddenly the "help I'm stuck and I'm taking 3d6 damage a round!" experience becomes far less urgent and more of an annoyance...

I don't know how impactful this would be at higher tiers of play. But at tier 2, it's very good, and it's outright broken if another party member(s!) is a good "minion summoner".

There's a reason twilight cleric is often banned.
 

Order cleric is only as strong as the party rogue (if they aren't able to set up their own reaction attack). It's a strong single level dip, with the downside that everyone hates gods of order.

The twilight cleric also becomes more powerful the larger the party. If there are fewer than three party members is almost becomes balanced. Also, gods of twilight are cool.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
Order cleric is only as strong as the party rogue (if they aren't able to set up their own reaction attack). It's a strong single level dip, with the downside that everyone hates gods of order.

The twilight cleric also becomes more powerful the larger the party. If there are fewer than three party members is almost becomes balanced. Also, gods of twilight are cool.

Divine Soul might be taking over rogue enabling duties.

CoS took a turn for the worse with Alignment shift to LE and technically removed from the game. Happened to another player as well. Woukd have killed the campaign though.

DM let me swap out silvery barbs the spells absurd and obnoxious. Wasn't fun for me or them.

It's not just rogues it works great with the -5/+10 fears espicially if it's something you're doing anyway.
 

ECMO3

Hero
It's not just rogues it works great with the -5/+10 fears espicially if it's something you're doing anyway.

Even without the +10 feat, it also works great with Paladins and many Warlocks, Fighters and Rangers that get extra damage or effects they can land with a hit off turn.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
Even without the +10 feat, it also works great with Paladins and many Warlocks, Fighters and Rangers that get extra damage or effects they can land with a hit off turn.

True rogues are most obvious followed by the -5/+10 fears.

Wife realized if she twin haste herself and the rogue her at will dagae ramps up massively and enables rogue to sneak attack off turn.

Then I can use my spells to do the fighter.

CoS things like sunblade and a dark boon that gave her sorcerer 25 strength to go with her +2 spear and the blade cantrips.
 

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