D&D 5E Order Vs Twilight Cleric. Neo Warlord Abuse?

[FrogReaver]

I've seen one played up to 20. It gets even more horribly busted at high levels.

Focusing fire on the twilight cleric is one of the reasons they are so bust. They make perfect tanks. Just sit there with their shield up spamming heals on themselves whist the rest of the party do whatever they like without worrying about defence at all. The temporary hp ability is basically a super taunt power. Enemies can't ignore them.

Never seen an Order cleric played, and it's not something I would want to play myself.

Twilight now has the honour of being the only subclass with a permanent ban from my game (and no one questions why).

You don’t have to focus the twilight cleric. Any PC will do.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

You don’t have to focus the twilight cleric. Any PC will do.

Then the twilight cleric focuses on them. If the infinite temporary hp dispenser wasn't attached to a class that had lots of healing inherently, it wouldn't be so broken.

In my experience, the only way to give the twilight cleric a hard time is to do the opposite and spam the whole party with AoE attacks.

 

[Zardnaar]

Booming Blade doesn't care what ability it is keyed off. It makes no difference. GFB it does have a small effect, but that's the weaker spell anyway.

Derp I meant gfb. Arcana cleric can take both.

Potent cantrip adds your wisdom modifier to both at level 8. Or radiant damage via Tashas.

Nature cleric thornwhips victims into spirit guardians or goes into shilleagh beatdown mode using the usual spells.

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

You don’t have to focus the twilight cleric. Any PC will do.

That's what you should always be doing as a DM if you want to beat the players in combat. Spreading attacks around is a waste no matter what the party composition is.

 

[Zardnaar]

That's what you should always be doing as a DM if you want to beat the players in combat. Spreading attacks around is a waste no matter what the party composition is.

And hit them while down.

 

[jgsugden]

Order cleric spell list is mostly enchantment spells. And bless.

Throw in command. Hold person, compulsion and dominate person.

Bless is its usual effect, bonus action and grant an attack.

Hold person and follow up with sacred flame. Auto fail and with tashas 3d8 damage at lvl 8, 2d8 lvl 6.

Or use a weapon advantage to hit, free critical.

I get all of that, but I'm saying that the multiclass archer, for example, can do more than that with their action. For example, she can quicken bless for a few spell points to grant an attack (at level 9 as opposed to level 6), but instead of using the action for a cantrip of 13.5 damage, she is firing two shots at d8+16 (magic bow and bracers). At levels 6 to 8 we usually had her precasting bless (or other concentration spells) and then using slots for healing word during combat. She did not take hold person as a spell as her cleric DC would have been lower. However, her most common spells to quicken ended up being Vortex Warp, Aid, Bless and Haste. Beyond that, she usually was just Healing Word on allies to grant them that bonus attack while unleashing 2 (or 3) bow shots.

On top of all that, she was a variant winged Tiefling so she enjoyed a lot of mobility and ease in avoiding melee attacks.

Straight Order cleric is great ... but adding one level is enough to make other classes very powerful.

 

[wicked cool]

Bonus action bless or reaction silvery barbs and voice of authority is silly.

In CoS dropped a slow on 6 opponents landed it on 5.

Cleared the 3 hags out of the windmill level 3. Death house wasn't as bad as feared either.

Dm banned silvery barbs

 

[wicked cool]

I've seen one played up to 20. It gets even more horribly busted at high levels.

Focusing fire on the twilight cleric is one of the reasons they are so bust. They make perfect tanks. Just sit there with their shield up spamming heals on themselves whist the rest of the party do whatever they like without worrying about defence at all. The temporary hp ability is basically a super taunt power. Enemies can't ignore them.

Never seen an Order cleric played, and it's not something I would want to play myself.

Twilight now has the honour of being the only subclass with a permanent ban from my game (and no one questions why).

Other than order what do your players use a cleric

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

Necro this thread
Starting a campaign at level 3. Is twilight the best? If you couldn’t take twilight what would your choice be. Campaign will be in exandria and I’m choosing tortle so armor isn’t a factor

I am currently playing a Level 10 Twilight Cleric. It is indeed strong. But I've learned that there isn't a lot of variety in how the fights go. When in the fight, my spell list is effective, but limited in scope. The buffing is the priority, and that feels passive, so you don't feel like you are taking the fight to the enemy. Also, the Twilight Cleric really wants to go first in a fight, so others can get the temporary hit points before they get hit. If I go last as the Cleric, my allies are often getting hit before my Twilight Sanctuary goes up.

1. 1st round Action: Channel Divinity: Twilight Sanctuary. It's an action so you don't also get to attack on the first round, unless you want to concentrate on a Spiritual Weapon or something (which I don't usually do, as I prefer Bless). If you don't have the Channel Divinity ability, you'll be functioning like a normal cleric for the fight. But with 2+ uses per day, recharging 1 on each short rest, you'll always have it for 2 fights, usually 3. I will say I've never had to consider using Channel Divinity for any other effect. Twilight Sanctuary is too good to pass up.
2. 2nd round Action: This depends on the difficulty, type of enemy, and expected duration of the fight. If you are fighting a solo monster, Bless helps your allies really well with bonuses to attacks and saves. If you have 3rd level spells and you are fighting a horde, Spiritual Guardians is amazing. Both are concentration effects, which matters. At 9th level, I was able to use Circle of Power when fighting a scary Legendary monster, and it was an amazing feeling. I've never played a paladin at a high enough level to use the spell, and Twilight Clerics cheat it out at 9th level.
3. 3rd round Action: Was the enemy able to get in some early hits or debuffs on you or your allies? Heal them now, otherwise use your preferred attack, whether a weapon, cantrip, or a bigger spell like Guiding Bolt if needed. I keep my higher level spell slots open for bigger heals or Spiritual Guardian uses, and use mostly cantrips or weapon attacks, as I trust my allies to burn our enemies down.

The fight is often halfway over at this point, but at this point you are plinking away while trying to keep your concentration going.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Other than order what do your players use a cleric

What do I see played? Well, cleric isn't a particularly popular class in my group. Aside from Twilight I've seen Grave domain, and a druid with a Life domain dip. I see more druids, along with healing-focused bards, and even a healing-focused warlock. And rangers and paladins who do a bit of cleric-type stuff occasionally.