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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8858739" data-attributes="member: 6801228">Are you joking right now? That isn't how they balance the game. They CAN'T balance it that way. For it to be balanced this way a group of 4 Paladins would have to have identical damage mitigation to a group of 4 sorcerers. And they don't. And they didn't balance it by saying that Sorcerers deal more damage, so that makes up for the Paladins having more healing and better saves. And I'm not looking at the spell in isolation. I'm looking at it while considering CR, spell slots, average monster damage design, and average hp. You keep acting like all I did was look at 1d8+wis mod and say "that can't be enough!" But that isn't what I did.Yes, yes I did. And even if I didn't, this conversation started with an acknowledgement by multiple parties that healing in 5e is too weak.Maybe that is because there is no possible way to predict what the rest of the party looks like, or what abilities they have.So, 4 second winds is equal the ability to cast the Heal Spell 4 times? Because if you take the correct combination of abilities, the clerics can deal 3d8+2d8+wis+4d8+wis every round for a fight, while still having the Heal spells, so is that really balanced against 4 fighters with no feats? Or, and this might be a little out there, they don't actually consider every possible scenario and balance based on the consideration that any weak ability in the party will be paired with a stronger ability used by a different party member. Because that's stupid.I haven't failed yet. No reason to believe that it will all suddenly collapse after the years of me doing it.You have not "in effect" healed me at all. Because you have no knowledge that that monster was going to deal 12 damage. Maybe it was going to deal zero damage. Maybe 5 damage. Maybe 30 damage. And sure, "If I kill the monster, it can't hurt me" is a concept. But it isn't the concept of a HEALER. If it was, then Assassins would be the premier healers of any game. But they aren't, they are in a category called "Damage per Round" or DPR. Healing is a different category, because DPR =/= healing. You don't just get to redefine things and pretend you are right.</blockquote>

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