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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 8861374" data-attributes="member: 23751">They design based around their formula, not the DMG guidelines.You need to ask WotC and see if they will share it with you.  I don't work for them and probably couldn't share due to an NDA if I did.Everything from Action Surge to fast movement to save or suck to portent.  It all makes a difference and factors in.  A single spell doing less healing than you want it to doesn't mean that it's underpowered.They will lag outside of the combat pillar, yes.Really?  You need me to read you the utility spells clerics get?  And I already listed 3 or 4 several posts ago.  Didn't you read those?You used your 5th level slots in one of the fights according to your posts.  Those are no longer available.You did if you didn't factor in utility.You do know that most combats see combatants go unconscious or very low in hit points, right.  Often multiples.  If you only have 1 slot for each cleric, they're going to TPK.  They aren't as durable as fighters.So either they use them, or they die because 4 PCs using only cantrips or maybe 1st level spells aren't going to fare well against an 11th level encounter.So you just arbitrarily announced fighter damage?  Which subclass did you use? I'm guessing you went with the Champion, which is the weakest.This is a Red Herring.  Fighters don't have to be able to solve them.  Clerics WILL use them regardless of what another group might have done or not done.They don't have comparable HP.  They will be behind due to the fighter's larger hit dice and greater average con.I have years of game play where monsters dish out lots of damage in every fight.  Heal is one use.  Since it doesn't carry over and you have 4 clerics who will need healing in most fights, 4 heal spells aren't going to be that good.No.  If you can use optional rules from other books, fighters can use optional feats instead of wasting ASIs on stats that they don't need.</blockquote>

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