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December 1st UA Spell changes
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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8865158" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>Then I'll start comparing damage to backgrounds. What CR is a 54 damage vs an Acolyte? Is it different than 93 damage vs a Former Cultist? Why don't we have this math! I demand the hidden math that tells me CR vs Librarian Scholar!!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Except... we basically do. May not be laid out, but since we know CR is "the level of a party of four against this monster" and we know the average Ability Scores, ASI's, Proficiency bonuses, and ect ect, we can pretty trivially see why Damage, HP, AC, Attack Bonus and Save DCs are where they are. You say that we can't possibly know, because they didn't give us a formula, but it sure seems like we can. After all, how do you imagine Kobold Press made their monsters? The system is there, you just want it laid out in a way that it cannot be laid out.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Cutting off where I clarify what is meant by calling them "theoritical abilities". So honest of you. I'm glad you don't try and warp the conversation to suit your own arguments. It would make trying to have any discussion with you as pleasant as having my teeth kicked in repeatedly.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>PCs do not have higher than normal ACs. I don't even know how you could possibly justify that. And besides, Advantage is better the higher the target's AC is anyways.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Oh noes! 60 lbs! But my poor character with their primary weapon, armor, and miscellaneous gear can only carry 240 lbs without any issue whatsoever! I mean, what would I do if I was carrying slightly more than 250 lbs of stuff on a 6-day journey that slowly reduced the amount of weight I was carrying! </p><p></p><p>I've done this song and dance hundreds of times, and it isn't even related to the discussion except for you to make further pot shots attempting to discredit my numbers by attacking ANYTHING ELSE besides my actual arguments.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Then those need to be fixed. But it would be kind of crappy for me to judge a classes performance just because a single subclass in it wasn't up to par. So, you hold the subclasses as equal when looking at the class, then balance the subclasses agaisnt each other. Not rocket science here.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And that within this range teams are what is balanced, not individuals. You made that very clear. And then you threw a fit and demanded that I not use specific teams, because that wasn't fair. Guess your range was rather small.</p><p></p><p>Frankly Max? You have devolved to nothing but cheap shots and red herrings. I've shown you repeatedly that your assertions were wrong. You refuse to acknowledge and keep trying to squirm away from those points to attack me in every direction except the actual discussion. Are we done here? You successfully ruined any attempt to have a discussion about fixing healing. Congrats. Hopefully someone, somewhere else, was able to have a productive conversation that will move OD&D forward in a better direction for healing spells, potions and other abilities.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 8865158, member: 6801228"] Then I'll start comparing damage to backgrounds. What CR is a 54 damage vs an Acolyte? Is it different than 93 damage vs a Former Cultist? Why don't we have this math! I demand the hidden math that tells me CR vs Librarian Scholar!! Except... we basically do. May not be laid out, but since we know CR is "the level of a party of four against this monster" and we know the average Ability Scores, ASI's, Proficiency bonuses, and ect ect, we can pretty trivially see why Damage, HP, AC, Attack Bonus and Save DCs are where they are. You say that we can't possibly know, because they didn't give us a formula, but it sure seems like we can. After all, how do you imagine Kobold Press made their monsters? The system is there, you just want it laid out in a way that it cannot be laid out. Cutting off where I clarify what is meant by calling them "theoritical abilities". So honest of you. I'm glad you don't try and warp the conversation to suit your own arguments. It would make trying to have any discussion with you as pleasant as having my teeth kicked in repeatedly. PCs do not have higher than normal ACs. I don't even know how you could possibly justify that. And besides, Advantage is better the higher the target's AC is anyways. Oh noes! 60 lbs! But my poor character with their primary weapon, armor, and miscellaneous gear can only carry 240 lbs without any issue whatsoever! I mean, what would I do if I was carrying slightly more than 250 lbs of stuff on a 6-day journey that slowly reduced the amount of weight I was carrying! I've done this song and dance hundreds of times, and it isn't even related to the discussion except for you to make further pot shots attempting to discredit my numbers by attacking ANYTHING ELSE besides my actual arguments. Then those need to be fixed. But it would be kind of crappy for me to judge a classes performance just because a single subclass in it wasn't up to par. So, you hold the subclasses as equal when looking at the class, then balance the subclasses agaisnt each other. Not rocket science here. And that within this range teams are what is balanced, not individuals. You made that very clear. And then you threw a fit and demanded that I not use specific teams, because that wasn't fair. Guess your range was rather small. Frankly Max? You have devolved to nothing but cheap shots and red herrings. I've shown you repeatedly that your assertions were wrong. You refuse to acknowledge and keep trying to squirm away from those points to attack me in every direction except the actual discussion. Are we done here? You successfully ruined any attempt to have a discussion about fixing healing. Congrats. Hopefully someone, somewhere else, was able to have a productive conversation that will move OD&D forward in a better direction for healing spells, potions and other abilities. [/QUOTE]
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