Decoupling Skills from Stats

[Kannik]

In looking over the various bits of info on D&D N, one way I am seeing that skills could work has me rather excited. Essentially:

• If most things in the game are tied to attribute rolls;
• And skills simply give you a bonus to an attribute roll;
• Then:
• Skills could be bonuses to any attribute roll if that skill is relevant in that situation

This could really rock. I’ve seen this done similarly in other game systems (Silhouette for example) and I really like it. The DM and/or player chooses their action, finds the attribute that most suits that action, and then applies a relevant skill as a bonus. Skills end up being more useful in more situations, and vice versa, the appropriate attribute is applied to the skill use. So for a Performance skill you could use DEX (juggling), CHA (singing) or STR (hand balancing) depending what you were trying to do. Or if you were attempting to bring down a gazebo (the evil that they are) you would do a STR check to knock it down – but if you had Architecture as a skill you could add that as a bonus to the skill for knowing where to push.

(This of course could be simulated in previous editions by making the Architecture roll and applying some sort of bonus to the STR check if successful – allowing the skill to apply to any attribute roll streamlines the process)

Anyone else read the tea leaves the same way and are excited (or not) as I am?

Peace,

Kannik

 

[keterys]

Sounds good to me.

Course, part of me is tempted to FATE it up and have people just write down stuff like

Race: Dwarf
Class: Barbarian
Theme: Beastmaster
Hobby: Herbalism
Past: Bla bla bla
Destiny: bla bla bla

and play just have you tap things for an advantage as appropriate, whatever makes sense.

DM: You get slammed by the ogre, make a (Con? Str? whatever) Save or get knocked several squares and fall prone.
PC: *rolls* It's close, but nobody tosses a dwarf so I have advantage, which barely make it. (hopeful)
DM: Sounds good.

PC: I want to scout out the place, so I send up my hawk to let me know if he sees anything scary and check the spore around the nearby herbs to figure out what roams the area.
DM: Sure, Wis with advantage.

Etc.

 

[Sunseeker]

I've almost always run it this way in my games. It's one thing I find annoying about skill lists.

Why is my "knowledge: sailing" wisdom and not int? As a person who has actually sailed, that knowledge is both, it's also dex for reacting to sudden weather changes, and str for being able to hold on in a storm, and con for being able to survive that storm and should you find yourself in Cuban waters, probably a whole ton of Cha.

I wholeheartedly agree that players should be able to choose what stat determines their skill-check with a reasonable explanation of why.

 

[mkill]

I agree, with one caveat:

There should still be a default attribute to keep the game moving quickly. If the skill says "Horsemanship: +2 to Dexterity checks for mounted maneuvers" the player knows that he can use this bonus when I call for a Dexterity check to do things like stay on the horse while it dashes like hell over uneven terrain. If it just said "+2 to ability checks while on horseback" it doesn't have this direct clue that riding skill should be handled by Dex.

However, the DMG should include the info "the DM can grant a skill bonus to a different ability score, if it is appropriate for the situation". Using the above horsemanship example, I as the DM could grant the PC his +2 Horsemanship bonus to Con checks to avoid a sore back on hour-long rides, Wis checks to heal wounds of his horse, or Cha checks to calm it down when it is scared.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Actually it sounded that way in the ddxp transscipts...

+2 to stealth means to all stealth related checks. usually dexterity, but sometimes rather int (chosing the right spot) or con (holding your breath)

 

[Mallus]

I approve!

 

[Greg K]

This could really rock. I’ve seen this done similarly in other game systems (Silhouette for example) and I really like it. The DM and/or player chooses their action, finds the attribute that most suits that action, and then applies a relevant skill as a bonus. Skills end up being more useful in more situations, and vice versa, the appropriate attribute is applied to the skill use. So for a Performance skill you could use DEX (juggling), CHA (singing) or STR (hand balancing) depending what you were trying to do. Or if you were attempting to bring down a gazebo (the evil that they are) you would do a STR check to knock it down – but if you had Architecture as a skill you could add that as a bonus to the skill for knowing where to push.

This was an option in the 3.0 DMG (not sure about 3.5). I think one of the examples was Ride and using it, in place of Appraise, to evaluate a horse.

 

[Umbran]

The basic idea here is as old as Classic Deadlands, at least.

Characters have an attribute (like Knowledge, or Deftness) expressed in so many of a type of die (like a 2d6 Knowledge). When you try something that you don't have a skill for, or is too basic for skills, you roll your attribute.

You also have skills - each skill is just a number. Skills are associated with an attribute. Shootin'istol is a Deftness skill. If you have a Deftness of 2d8, and a Shootin': Pistol of 5, you roll 5d8 (the skill gives number of dice, the attribute the die type) when trying to fire a pistol at a target.

Now, say you're lookin' at some newfangled firearm you've never seen before, and you are trying to work out exactly what it does or how it works. The GM can ask you to roll a Shootin' roll, based off your Knowledge die type, rather than your Deftness.