Defeating bad guy twice = double XP???

[Li Shenron]

I really do whatever I want in those kind of cases

What if the BBEG you killed is resurrected? No XP the second time?
What if he changes to an undead?
What if you fight it again after 20 years?
What if he had gained levels since last time?

I think it's quite subjective... the point of giving no xp for the second time could be because it was just the continuation of the first, but then does it depend whether you already gave xp during the first time?

For me it depends more on whether the second time was a challenge or not. If the second encounter is identical to the first (meaning that the BBEG is just the same, only fully healed), then the players have perhaps the advantage of knowing very well what the opponent's powers are, hence the challenge may be easier, but still if it's life-threatening and resource-consuming, then some xp are deserved.

 

[irdeggman]

I like to view xp awards as a means of "overcoming a challenge". This may be defeating a foe, it may be bypassing a trap, it may be in solving a puzzle, etc.


While not the definitive text.

pg 36 of DMG does state:

"A CR is a measure of how easy or difficult a monster or trap is to overcome."

By reading it in that light it makes it much easier to ejudicate, IMO. That is you don't necessarily need to "defeat" a foe in order to "overcome the challenge".

In the case in question - I'd award xp both times since each one is a separate encounter/circumstance. Now if players want to attempt to "game" this system by consciously decided to release a foe (or let him go) so that they can capture/defeat him later on - I would not award xp (house-rule). But regardless this becomes a diminishing return in the long run anyway since the PCs level up and the opponent does not.

 

[shilsen]

I suggest dropping CR-based XP altogether and just awarding XP every session based on how fast you want the PCs to advance. Maybe throw in something extra once in a while for achieving a particular goal in game. I started doing that a little over three years ago and I'll never use CR-based XP, or any other kind of formulae-based XP, again.

 

[amethal]

I suggest dropping CR-based XP altogether and just awarding XP every session based on how fast you want the PCs to advance. Maybe throw in something extra once in a while for achieving a particular goal in game. I started doing that a little over three years ago and I'll never use CR-based XP, or any other kind of formulae-based XP, again.

Or just award a level every 4 sessions. Or whatever.

You can also have several XP awards based on how successful the PCs were.

For example, you could decide that forcing the BBEG to retreat, and delaying his evil plans for several weeks while he regroups, might be worth less XP than stopping him permanently by killing him.

 

[Bagpuss]

Fortunately XP is based off of the PCs succeeding at their goal in defeating the encounter, not the NPC "succeeding" in his goal of eluding them.

Yes but all the villain* does in the encounter is order his men to attack and then run off while they die, he hasn't really been encountered. So they shouldn't get the CR for defeating him.

If he blows most of his clerical spells buffing the minions, but doesn't really get dirty in the fight, before he decides to leave then they should probably get some XP but perhaps not the full CR.

If he departs after buffing his minions, flame striking and only goes because he's been knocked down to 10 hps, then yes they should get the full XP.

On the later encounter

If it's days later and he's got all his spells back and is healed to full when they defeat/kill him then they should get the full XP.

Later that afternoon and he hasn't got the buff spells back but is otherwise fine and still has a few tricks up his sleeve, then they should probably get the remainder of the award they didn't get earlier.

If its moments later when he's still on 8hp and has no spells, then it should probably be treated as part of the same encounter and so no CR XP but maybe a little ad hoc XP for being swift enough to chase them down.



*Using Evil Cleric for this example.

 

[Bad Paper]

When awarding XP for someone who escaped, or for a fight during which the PCs were routed, I usually drop relevant CRs by 1. If it's a fight where the PCs fled dragging one or more of their buddies' corpses with them, then I tend to drop CRs by 2. Or so. Really, I eyeball things a lot. Sometimes I give XP percentage boosts or CR boosts for things I decide by fiat: "Oh, screw it, he was already summoning that thing when they burst the door down," that sort of thing.

So I would drop the CR of the OP's BBEG by 1 for this and each subsequent fight (even if they kill him next time) when calculating XP.

 

[KarinsDad]

If the PCs accomplished their task of "defeating" (such a broad term) the BBEG, then they should get XP for it, no? Of course, the DM does have final say in whether or not they made any accomplishments, but I can't see how any sane DM would say "defeating" the BBEG isn't one.

Most DMs are sane and do very different things, including awarding XP. Just because a DM has a different measure of accomplishment than you does not make him insane.

Maybe you should use a different term.


To the OP:

I often award a lesser amount of XP for reoccuring villains. Typically I use:

First encounter: 100%
Second encounter: 75%
Third encounter: 50%
Fourth and subsequent encounter: 25%

The reason is that I do not feel that encountering the same type of challenge is really that challenging. Sure, the reoccurring villain might have some new tricks up his sleeve, but the PCs are letting him get away to fight another day and I do not necessarily think that deserves full XP every time. Villains typically should be put down and allowing one to escape repeatedly where he can further his schemes and cause even more innocents to suffer does not deserve full XP (course, the PCs are expected to be heroic in my campaigns). JMSO (Just My Sane Opinion).

 

[Nail]

They would get all of the XP, both times.

Yup.

 

[Harm]

It's not appropriate to award full XP if he gets away. I'm having "troll-in-a-cage XP engine" flashbacks. I could just imagine "Evil Pete's Adventurer Academy" where the epic villian lets apprentices poke him then he flees giving them huge amounts of XP.

Award what you think they deserve in the situation. It shouldn't be full however, but it might be close if him fleeing achieved a significant goal, like seriously weakening an evil opponent. If him fleeing means he's just going to rest and get his spells back then do whatever he was going to do the day after, well thats not much of a victory is it, so shouldn't be worth much.

 

[Michael Silverbane]

It's not appropriate to award full XP if he gets away. I'm having "troll-in-a-cage XP engine" flashbacks. I could just imagine "Evil Pete's Adventurer Academy" where the epic villian lets apprentices poke him then he flees giving them huge amounts of XP.

Award what you think they deserve in the situation. It shouldn't be full however, but it might be close if him fleeing achieved a significant goal, like seriously weakening an evil opponent. If him fleeing means he's just going to rest and get his spells back then do whatever he was going to do the day after, well thats not much of a victory is it, so shouldn't be worth much.

Fortunately, most DMs are capable of discerning the difference between a villain that has fled because it has been defeated and one that has fled for some other, possibly nefarious, purpose. Likewise, most DMs can tell that there is a difference in the amount of challenge inherent in poking a caged troll and one that is free to try to eat you.

Mostly, Chupacabra, you should just use your discretion. If the villain fled because the PCs kicked his butt, then they get the XP for it. Likewise, if the villain is not as powerful the second time around (possibly because he's recently had a firece butt-kicking), then he's not worth as much XP.

Later
silver