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Defenders and Monsters that Swallow Whole
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<blockquote data-quote="DragonXNIK" data-source="post: 4734934" data-attributes="member: 83026"><p>Something bothered me about the purple worm when I first read it, and after reading this thread, I know what it is. Though the word Swallow implies a lot, the silly RAW interpretation of this power, is that when a character is "swallowed", they are restrained in a space within the worm, but not forced to move along with the worm in any way (as the Restrained status immobilizes them anyway). The purple worm can then just run away while the poor character melts from teleporting stomach acid and anti-logic death rays. I know I would be dazed if this happened to me. Additionally, if the rest of the party makes chase and kills the worm as it flees, the swallowed character will magically appear on the corpse, having been swinging his sword at bleeding air the entire time.</p><p> </p><p>Of course this interpretation is patently ridiculous (but fun to imagine).</p><p> </p><p>But it does still raise the point that Swallow is too vague, for reasons already brought forth on this thread. When reading this power, it makes sense that a character who is swallowed should occupy one of the swallowing creature's squares to be considered "inside", especially if you're not supposed to be able to draw line of sight or effect. It follows that the character move with the creature that swallowed it. Those 2 points could be commonly assumed, and are probably the first choice for most players and DMs trying to understand the power. This assumption raises some issues though.</p><p>Even after this errata, powers such as a Cleric's Consecrated Ground raise questions about which square the swallowed character occupies (note that the errata states that no Creature can draw line of effect, a zone or conjuration still could). It would be awesome to hurt the Worm with radiant damage while healing the swallowed ally, but an Elder worm will not be entirely covered by the zone, leaving 7 squares that the swallowed player could potentially occupy instead.</p><p>W - Elder Purple Worm</p><p>Z - Consecrated Ground overlapping Purple Worm</p><p>WWWW</p><p>W Z Z Z</p><p>W Z Z Z</p><p>W Z Z Z</p><p>The swallowed character could be on any one of those W squares, preventing him from receiving much needed healing. It's unclear who gets to decide where the character is. Should the character always occupy a middle square? Which one? (there are 4)</p><p>If you choose to try and avoid this problem by removing the swallowed character from the board, your players could still credibly argue that consecrated ground affect their ally within the worm (Until the swallowed character is considered outside of line of effect from any effect). These kinds of small disagreements can easily blow up into arguements and rules lookups that will waste time in a play session. Some preparation is required for DMs who want to use monsters like this, it would be better if the Monster Power Entry described what a DM should do with a swallowed character's position/miniature with a sentence such as 'Remove the swallowed target from the field until the Purple worm is dead.' And possibly an addendum to be abundently clear: 'The target still acts on its initiative count, but may only use its action to make a basic attack at the purple worm's normal AC, the target is not considered blind for this attack.'</p><p> </p><p>Just kind of a thought exercise for me.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DragonXNIK, post: 4734934, member: 83026"] Something bothered me about the purple worm when I first read it, and after reading this thread, I know what it is. Though the word Swallow implies a lot, the silly RAW interpretation of this power, is that when a character is "swallowed", they are restrained in a space within the worm, but not forced to move along with the worm in any way (as the Restrained status immobilizes them anyway). The purple worm can then just run away while the poor character melts from teleporting stomach acid and anti-logic death rays. I know I would be dazed if this happened to me. Additionally, if the rest of the party makes chase and kills the worm as it flees, the swallowed character will magically appear on the corpse, having been swinging his sword at bleeding air the entire time. Of course this interpretation is patently ridiculous (but fun to imagine). But it does still raise the point that Swallow is too vague, for reasons already brought forth on this thread. When reading this power, it makes sense that a character who is swallowed should occupy one of the swallowing creature's squares to be considered "inside", especially if you're not supposed to be able to draw line of sight or effect. It follows that the character move with the creature that swallowed it. Those 2 points could be commonly assumed, and are probably the first choice for most players and DMs trying to understand the power. This assumption raises some issues though. Even after this errata, powers such as a Cleric's Consecrated Ground raise questions about which square the swallowed character occupies (note that the errata states that no Creature can draw line of effect, a zone or conjuration still could). It would be awesome to hurt the Worm with radiant damage while healing the swallowed ally, but an Elder worm will not be entirely covered by the zone, leaving 7 squares that the swallowed player could potentially occupy instead. W - Elder Purple Worm Z - Consecrated Ground overlapping Purple Worm WWWW W Z Z Z W Z Z Z W Z Z Z The swallowed character could be on any one of those W squares, preventing him from receiving much needed healing. It's unclear who gets to decide where the character is. Should the character always occupy a middle square? Which one? (there are 4) If you choose to try and avoid this problem by removing the swallowed character from the board, your players could still credibly argue that consecrated ground affect their ally within the worm (Until the swallowed character is considered outside of line of effect from any effect). These kinds of small disagreements can easily blow up into arguements and rules lookups that will waste time in a play session. Some preparation is required for DMs who want to use monsters like this, it would be better if the Monster Power Entry described what a DM should do with a swallowed character's position/miniature with a sentence such as 'Remove the swallowed target from the field until the Purple worm is dead.' And possibly an addendum to be abundently clear: 'The target still acts on its initiative count, but may only use its action to make a basic attack at the purple worm's normal AC, the target is not considered blind for this attack.' Just kind of a thought exercise for me. [/QUOTE]
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