Defenders and Monsters that Swallow Whole

[Rechan]

If a defender uses his class mark on a monster, and the monster swallows the Defender/consumes the defender, etc...

Does the Defender's marking power trigger when the consumed target attacks someone else, even when the defender is inside it?

I'm at the moment looking at the Spirit Devourer. If this thing, say, devoured a Paladin, the paladin's Divine CHallenge would just try to melt the thing to slag if it used any other power.

Same with things like Shambling Mound or Gelatinous cube (neither of which actually get to attack the monster inside of it, just do routine damage per round).

 

[Mort_Q]

A literal reading of the rules would seems, in my opinion, silly.

So I'd say that as far as a Swallowed Marker goes, the swallower is attacking every round, but ...

...perhaps the indigestion gives him the -2 for attacking others... though I'd be hesitant to apply the damage.... though you could easily say that's the Paladin burning with Radiant energy from within.

DM fiat!

 

[Griogre]

I'm with Mort, as long as a defender has been swallowed I'd consider the monster to have fulfilled the mark requirement each round until the defender escapes. I mean, come on - look at the alternative - if you don't treat it that way do you really want to discourage the monster from using one of it's coolest powers on a defender? Or have it break the mark constantly to swallow a different character? That doesn't make much sense to me. My two cents.

 

[Saeviomagy]

I think that someone who's been swallowed is having a bad enough time without his DM also deciding that the swallow causes his class abilities to stop working.

 

[Griogre]

I don't believe his class abilities stop working - just that being digested is enough of an attack to fulfill the mark requirement.

 

[webrunner]

I don't believe his class abilities stop working - just that being digested is enough of an attack to fulfill the mark requirement.

But it's per attack, right? Does it's other non-digestion attacks include the fighter as a target?

 

[MarkB]

But it's per attack, right? Does it's other non-digestion attacks include the fighter as a target?

Correct. Defender marks penalise creatures for actions taken, not for conditions they fail to meet - there's no such thing as fulfilling the mark requirement.

Personally, I'd rule that a Defender must be able to perceive a creature's actions in order to respond to them - so a Fighter, for instance, would have to see the creature making an attack on someone else or shifting in order to make his Combat Challenge attack.

On the other hand, I'd consider magical effects emplaced by the mark to still be effective. A creature under a Paladin's Divine Challenge will still eat radiant damage for attacking another target, even if the paladin can't see the attack.

 

[Mouseferatu]

You know who really benefits from this? The swordmage with aegis of assault. As soon as the monster attacks someone else (assuming the swordmage marked it before being swallowed), the swordmage is free.

Edit: No, wait, I'm wrong. I forgot about the "line of sight" requirement on teleportation. Carry on, nothing to see here...

 

[Nail]

Seems to me the rules are being changed here for no real benefit.

The defender marks the swallower. If the swallower attacks anyone else and does not include the defender in the attack, the defender's powers that key on the mark go off.

Plain and simple: Swallow a defender and pay the price.

 

[Griogre]

But it's per attack, right? Does it's other non-digestion attacks include the fighter as a target?

Good point! I'm going to have to re-think this.

It still seems wrong to me to penalize a monster for using its special attack on a defender because once it swallows the defender it has no way of attacking the swallowed creature - and for most (all?) the monsters that can swallow characters it their big thing. I can see the counter argument that it's the defender's thing to anoy monsters even when sitting in their gullet.

I have been convinced that by RAW marks don't stop working when swallowed.