Defenders and Monsters that Swallow Whole

[Goumindong]

And why do you assume that the fighter/defender can't see the enemy?
Where do the rules tell you that the swallowed defender can't see.

If you say it is dark inside a creature - you are right (most of the time).
If I say the defender might have a light source you are still right but never the less the defender can see the enemy.

You do not have line of sight to the creature square, you cannot interrupt actions you are not aware of.

 

[Black Knight Irios]

You do not have line of sight to the creature square, you cannot interrupt actions you are not aware of.

Read this update of the MM:

Elder Purple Worm [Revision]
Monster Manual, page 214
Replace the swallow attack text with the following:
The elder purple worm tries to swallow a bloodied Large or smaller creature it is grabbing: +29 vs.
Fortitude; the target is swallowed. The swallowed target is inside the elder purple worm and is
dazed and restrained until it is no longer swallowed. The swallowed target has line of sight and
line of effect only to the elder purple worm, and no creature has line of sight or line of effect to the
swallowed target. The only attacks the swallowed target can make are basic attacks. At the start
of each of the elder purple worm’s turns, the swallowed target takes 20 damage plus 20 acid
damage. When the elder purple worm dies, the target is no longer swallowed and can escape as
a move action, appearing in the elder purple worm’s former space.

Apparently, I'm fullfilling the requirements of LoS and LoE.

 

[Goumindong]

But you're dazed. So you're not.

Can you see the triggering action?

If yes, you can make the attack/interrupt action. If no, then you cannot. Its pretty simple.

 

[Saeviomagy]

How do they attack the swallowed creature except for automatic damage?

The sight of a purpleworm eating himself just to bite the swallowed fighter one more time would be kinda amusing.

They spit him back up into their mouth for another chew? It always seemed strange to me that for many 3.5e monsters that swallowed, the monsters stomach was the safest place to be.

 

[Black Knight Irios]

But you're dazed. So you're not.

Can you see the triggering action?

If yes, you can make the attack/interrupt action. If no, then you cannot. Its pretty simple.

I think you can't discuss 'swallow' in general. Because it is not defined as a keyword (like swarm, phasing, immunity, etc.). It is a monster power that varies by monster.

And the varying restrictions that are placed upon the swallowee, are a varying nuissance based on defender.


Therefore you could say the following:
Some defenders can use their mark to the fullest while others cannot, and it depends on the swallowing creature as well.

 

[DracoSuave]

But you're dazed. So you're not.

Can you see the triggering action?

If yes, you can make the attack/interrupt action. If no, then you cannot. Its pretty simple.

Actually it's awareness of the action. Lack of sight does not mean lack of awareness. You still have to stealth if you're invisible if you want people to not know where you are nor what you are doing.

 

[DragonXNIK]

Read this update of the MM:
Elder Purple Worm [Revision]
Monster Manual, page 214
Replace the swallow attack text with the following:
The elder purple worm tries to swallow a bloodied Large or smaller creature it is grabbing: +29 vs.
Fortitude; the target is swallowed. The swallowed target is inside the elder purple worm and is
dazed and restrained until it is no longer swallowed. The swallowed target has line of sight and
line of effect only to the elder purple worm, and no creature has line of sight or line of effect to the
swallowed target. The only attacks the swallowed target can make are basic attacks. At the start
of each of the elder purple worm’s turns, the swallowed target takes 20 damage plus 20 acid
damage. When the elder purple worm dies, the target is no longer swallowed and can escape as
a move action, appearing in the elder purple worm’s former space.

Apparently, I'm fullfilling the requirements of LoS and LoE.

Something bothered me about the purple worm when I first read it, and after reading this thread, I know what it is. Though the word Swallow implies a lot, the silly RAW interpretation of this power, is that when a character is "swallowed", they are restrained in a space within the worm, but not forced to move along with the worm in any way (as the Restrained status immobilizes them anyway). The purple worm can then just run away while the poor character melts from teleporting stomach acid and anti-logic death rays. I know I would be dazed if this happened to me. Additionally, if the rest of the party makes chase and kills the worm as it flees, the swallowed character will magically appear on the corpse, having been swinging his sword at bleeding air the entire time.

Of course this interpretation is patently ridiculous (but fun to imagine).

But it does still raise the point that Swallow is too vague, for reasons already brought forth on this thread. When reading this power, it makes sense that a character who is swallowed should occupy one of the swallowing creature's squares to be considered "inside", especially if you're not supposed to be able to draw line of sight or effect. It follows that the character move with the creature that swallowed it. Those 2 points could be commonly assumed, and are probably the first choice for most players and DMs trying to understand the power. This assumption raises some issues though.
Even after this errata, powers such as a Cleric's Consecrated Ground raise questions about which square the swallowed character occupies (note that the errata states that no Creature can draw line of effect, a zone or conjuration still could). It would be awesome to hurt the Worm with radiant damage while healing the swallowed ally, but an Elder worm will not be entirely covered by the zone, leaving 7 squares that the swallowed player could potentially occupy instead.
W - Elder Purple Worm
Z - Consecrated Ground overlapping Purple Worm
WWWW
W Z Z Z
W Z Z Z
W Z Z Z
The swallowed character could be on any one of those W squares, preventing him from receiving much needed healing. It's unclear who gets to decide where the character is. Should the character always occupy a middle square? Which one? (there are 4)
If you choose to try and avoid this problem by removing the swallowed character from the board, your players could still credibly argue that consecrated ground affect their ally within the worm (Until the swallowed character is considered outside of line of effect from any effect). These kinds of small disagreements can easily blow up into arguements and rules lookups that will waste time in a play session. Some preparation is required for DMs who want to use monsters like this, it would be better if the Monster Power Entry described what a DM should do with a swallowed character's position/miniature with a sentence such as 'Remove the swallowed target from the field until the Purple worm is dead.' And possibly an addendum to be abundently clear: 'The target still acts on its initiative count, but may only use its action to make a basic attack at the purple worm's normal AC, the target is not considered blind for this attack.'

Just kind of a thought exercise for me.

 

[lukelightning]

You know who really benefits from this? The swordmage with aegis of assault. As soon as the monster attacks someone else (assuming the swordmage marked it before being swallowed), the swordmage is free.

Edit: No, wait, I'm wrong. I forgot about the "line of sight" requirement on teleportation. Carry on, nothing to see here...

Ah, but what if you are engulfed by a gelatanous cube? Or an invisible shambling mound? You can still see, right? So teleport away!