Defenders of the Faith question

[Artoomis]

Why would they publish something, publish it again with different values, and _not_ intend for the new version to replace the old?

That carries an assumption that all the released products are carefully reviewed against everything that has been previously released.

I doubt that's really true, at least not well enough to assume that a later item with an identical name to an earlier one is intended to replace the ealier-published item.

And as has been said before, a 'competence bonus' only ever applies to skills.

That was not really true in 3.0, and in 3.5 specific examples are:
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A bard's Inspire Greatness grants +2 competence bonus on attack rolls, and a +1 competence bonus on Fortitude saves.

Breastplate of Command grants the wearer gains a +2 competence bonus on all Charisma checks.

The belt of Dwarvenkind grants +4 competence bonus on Charisma checks when dealing with dwarves.

Bracers of Archery, Greater grant a +2 competence bonus on attack rolls and a +1 competence bonus on damage rolls.

Bracers of Archery, Lesser grant a +1 competence bonus on attack rolls.

The Circlet of Persuausion grants a +3 competence bonus on the wearer’s Charisma-based checks.

A Pale Green Ioun Stone grants a +1 competence bonus on attack rolls, saves, skill checks, and ability checks

The Duelist has: Grace (Ex): At 4th level, a duelist gains an additional +2 competence bonus on all Reflex saving throws.

The Guidance spell gives a +1 competence bonus on a single attack roll, saving throw, or skill check.

The Mind Fog spell gives a –10 competence penalty on Wisdom checks and Will saves.

The Transformation spell gives a +5 competence bonus on Fortitude saves.
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It would appear that "competence" can modify skill checks, ability score checks, attack rolls, damage rolls and saves, at least.

Still, nowhere in the core rules does a competence bonus apply to an ability score.

I'd have to check the DMG to see how competence bonuses are supposed to be used and if the core rules violate how they are supposed to be used.

 

[LokiDR]

Loki is just being ornery. Obviously the later publishing of the exact same ability overrides any earlier publishings, especially in cases such as this when the original ability is badly worded and too open to interpretation.

Just because it's not in the FAQ or errata doesn't mean it's not wrong.

-The Souljourner

I am not being ornery, I am point out a hole in the logic. I can't just say "obviously A&EG overwrites DotF" because it isn't obvious. As I first posted in this thread

The result: either there are two different versions of "command" armor or DotF ability is modified by A&EG. Any character who orders custom magic items based on some rule book can have the first, then be kicked out the game for metagaming. Those of use who use logic will follow the latter conclusion.

WotC should have clearly errata'd or FAQ'd it, so it would be clear. Just because I am annoyed they did not shouldn't imply I don't agree with your interpretation.

 

[The Souljourner]

Competence bonus to rolls, sure. Competence bonus to a stat, ability or other static number? Hell no. Competence can affect the outcome of an action, but it can't change the physical abilities you use to perform that action.

Are you going to have a compentence bonus to your natural armor? How about a compentence bonus to your speed? Compentence bonus to your constitution? No, no and no.

You can't have a competence bonus to Charisma, it makes no sense. Just like you can't have a dodge bonus to strength or a luck bonus to constitution.

-The Souljourner

P.S. Sorry Loki, I didn't realize the intent behind your statements (and didn't notice that earlier post about metagaming was you). It sounded like someone angling for some rules lawyer cheese, when in fact that was not the intent.

My apologies.