D&D 5E Defensive Duelist fix?

[Cap'n Kobold]

Sometimes it's worth the effort to try to convince people that their assumptions are off - in this case, making a case that the feat being buffed doesn't need it because it's sufficiently powerful as-is. Now, that does involve 'making a case' (as opposed to just saying "you're wrong.") but that would be a valid contribution to the conversation.

You don't have to believe that it needs improvement yourself in order to make suggestions to improve it for someone else. You just have to accept that they think it needs improvement. This is homebrew for one person, who hasn't found it very good. Its not going to break the game for everyone if you come up with some suggestions to improve it for them.

For example: At high levels, Defensive Duelist is very good - a +4 AC only once per turn is still fantastic even against multiple opponents, since it's going to change the result of 1/4 attacks outside of extreme cases. If you've already maxed out dex on your Errol Flynn-based fencer character, it's likely to be the best option (especially if your dm requires you to make all of your attacks before shield bashing). Any change made to the feat needs to account for this or you'll have something that's overpowered (as in, outshines non-rapier builds) at high levels even if it's still a meh choice at lower levels.

Yep. Its really powerful at higher levels where boosting your AC becomes harder and harder. Combined with full plate, shield, and defence fighting style, I got a lot of good use out of it in a high-end game.

 

[Seramus]

I'd rather the damage have a chance to miss, and involve rolling for damage.

The damage does have a chance to miss. When the enemy still hits you.

 

[Xeviat]

I think pointing out the similarities to Shield is interesting. A level 18 wizard can have shield as an at-will spell due to a class ability (they get 2 at-will spells 1st or 2nd level spells). Base defensive duelist is weaker than shield. That supports increasing it, I think.

 

[Stoutstien]

For myself anyway, I have never seen a player take this feat for their characters--or frankly even talked about considering it.

Compare it to Arcane Deflection. Although it only adds a +2 static bonus to AC, it also can add instead a +4 bonus to a saving throw! That is pretty huge IMO.

Now, I think Defensive Duelist as a concept has total merit! I also think if the buff to AC was equal to your attack bonus with the weapon you are parrying with, instead of just your proficiency bonus, it would be better. I mean, it is a feat after all. They don't have to be OP of course, but for most of the levels of play a +2 to maybe +4 bonus against one attack, at the cost of your reaction, just isn't really that great as I see it.

Since you think it is good enough as it is, great! But apparently a there are players such as the OP and myself, who don't. I like the idea of adding something more to it, or buffing what it already does, or make it a half feat and give it a +1 DEX bump. Then I would probably see it taken a time or two, if for nothing else than the DEX bump.

It should be noted that arcane deflections AC boost is also only for a single attack or ST. It's a lot like defensive duelist where the value is going to vary based on table style of play.
Against a single ogre both are amazing. Less so vs 4 goblins who decided you where the best target to pin cushion.

 

[DND_Reborn]

It should be noted that arcane deflections AC boost is also only for a single attack or ST. It's a lot like defensive duelist where the value is going to vary based on table style of play.
Against a single ogre both are amazing. Less so vs 4 goblins who decided you where the best target to pin cushion.

Sure, but to me the better part is the versatility of gaining the +4 bonus to a save! That has saved my wizard's butt a number of times. But that is also why I think Defensive Duelist needs a bump.

 

[Stoutstien]

Sure, but to me the better part is the versatility of gaining the +4 bonus to a save! That has saved my wizard's butt a number of times. But that is also why I think Defensive Duelist needs a bump.

Oh yeah the save boost is amazing. Bonuses like that are extremely rare and saves also don't have critical threshold to worried about. One of my "plan to play whenever I get to actually play" PCs is a hobgoblin battle smith/ war wizard with saves that would make a pally jealous.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The damage does have a chance to miss. When the enemy still hits you.

I feel like what I meant by “a chance to miss” was pretty damn clear. Please don’t nitpick.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Though it wouldn't really buff it substantially, I think getting rid of the Dex prerequisite and Finesse requirement might be a good idea. Then it would identical to the Parry ability lots of NPC statblocks have (and those statblocks often use non-finesse weapons).

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Though it wouldn't really buff it substantially, I think getting rid of the Dex prerequisite and Finesse requirement might be a good idea. Then it would identical to the Parry ability lots of NPC statblocks have (and those statblocks often use non-finesse weapons).

Good point!

 

[Paul Farquhar]

For myself anyway, I have never seen a player take this feat for their characters--or frankly even talked about considering it.

One thing I have noticed about power gamers - that are far more interested in boosting damage than boosting defence.