Defining its own Mythology

I was going to write this up in its own thread, but I think it fits nicely enough here to not bother.

I think the changes to D&D's core are actually opening up new avenues of gameplay that weren't as easily implemented in earlier editions of the game. There are two factors that are creating this: races and classes.

The eight races we are getting in PHB1 present a much greater range than earlier editions. Most D&D races could be summed up as "they're like us (humans) but..." In 4E, though, we are also getting lizard people, demon tainted people, and fey people on top of the traditional Tolkien set of Dwarfs, Elves, Halflings and Humans. We now have core races that can fit into a greater variety of settings. Old school D&D is supported by its Tolkien adoptions. Tieflings are a solid fit for Lieber or Howard style Sword & Sorcery. Dragonborn work with a wide variety of antecedents, especially JRPG influences. Eladrin fit any setting where fey interact with humans. That's not to say 3E or previous editions couldn't support these types of settings, but 4E has a lot more of their guts incorporated into its own.

Classes also help define a much greater range of styles and themes in 4E. From what we're guessing, the list is fighters, rogues, rangers, warlords, clerics, paladins, wizards and warlocks. Four of those are martial classes, and that's drawn some comments from these boards. Why are there 4 martial classes and only 2 each of arcane and divine? A possible answer comes from looking at people's desire to use D&D to play low magic S&S style games. Look at 3E's options for such a campaign: barbarian, fighter and rogue. These classes don't support a balanced party without making a lot of changes to the rules. In 4E, on the other hand, we have four classes that fill three of the four roles. A much more balances S&S style party can be built with the PHB tools. In addition to this, warlocks look like they're going to much better emulate S&S style wizards. Wizards themselves are being toned down, and thus fit better into a greater range of magic power. Those implements are opening the door for the Harry Potter, Willow, and Gandalf fans out there. Paladins losing their alignment restriction makes unholy knights and amoral warrior priests more viable. Warlords mean that clerics are no longer a practical necessity. No longer do you have to depend on the four pillars to have a balanced party, so no longer do you have to bend your campaign around these four pillars.

Basically, the choices WotC have made in establishing a stronger core identity to D&D have included a greater range of influences and styles than any previous edition. D&D is becoming more identifiably D&D, but in doing so, its also cherry picking a new batch of assumptions that fit a greater range of play.

Now, I need to add a caveat to all this. Everything I've said is based on my conjecture, so don't go bashing me for speaking as if its true. I know it's mostly conjecture, but I didn't want to pepper "in my opinion"s and "as far as I can tell"s all over the preceding two paragraphs. Also, I don't believe the martial classes are going to have flashy, mystical wuxia powers. I think the whole point of the martial power source is to explain why cut purses and sell swords don't need mystical abilities to stand alongside arcane masters and the servants of the gods.
 

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Raven Crowking said:
... From its roots, D&D was a game where you could read any novel, watch any movie, see any television show, and translate parts of it into your game. Everything was grist for the mill. It was easy to stat up new monsters, easy to stat up new spells and magic. That was an incredible strength. It meant that the DM could be inspired by just about anything. The game was invigorating to play, to run, even to prep.
...
RC

I don't forsee that ever going away. I still plan on doing that no matter what. I like my chocobos. :p
 

From its roots, D&D was a game where you could read any novel, watch any movie, see any television show, and translate parts of it into your game. Everything was grist for the mill. It was easy to stat up new monsters, easy to stat up new spells and magic. That was an incredible strength. It meant that the DM could be inspired by just about anything. The game was invigorating to play, to run, even to prep.
Even so, it's not very good at emulating anything than what it is designed to do, unless you do some serious tap dancing.
 

RandomCitizenX said:
AWizardinDallas

I keep seeing you claim that the write up in the MM for gnomes will be less than the write up for the PHB races based on previous editions of the game. I'm not sure if anyone else agrees with me on this, but that seems to be an unreasonable assumption. We have not seen the format of the MM, of the PHB races, or of the Monsters as PC's in the MM. How can you know that the gnome write up in the MM will be subpar when compared to the PHB race write ups?

Keep seeing? Um, I only wrote it once. I also didn't bring up the monster manual format for playing monsters as races. Someone else did. You're welcome to think it's an unreasonable assumption as that's your opinion. I don't think it's that much of a stretch really and that's my opinion. However, looking at "late 3.5" (as someone else here termed it, in other words, suggesting a progression not a cut over) the notes for playing monster races as characters in the most recent monster manuals suggest less notes for playing monsters as characters not more (i.e. when compared to earlier books). WoTC is "streamlining" (as someone here also termed it) and doing so would run contrary to their design goal.

By the way, the racial foot noting in the monster manual is decidedly inconvenient. Once upon a time players were not supposed to read the monster manuals. Now players virtually have to if they want to locate additional racial options, even for as mild a change as high elf to wood elf. :( That simple option, my friends, used to be in the good old 1E PHB. :)

D&D used to be fairly encyclopedic and it's not anymore; we should be seeing a convenient, generous catalog of core races not just a handful. D&D has been around for over thirty years and still the PHB contains only a handful of races. Why? Supplements make money.

Anyway my players and I have reached consensus and we won't be playing 4E as we dislike the changes were seeing in general. I may entertain buying a third party D20 system with a better design philosophy and certainly more core race as well as class options.

The good news is the stuff we like is about to get a whole lot cheeper. :D
 






AWizardInDallas said:
I disagree. That ability is limited only by game master skill and time.
Okay. High level campaign, low magic world, no divine or arcane magic allowed. Go!

Unless you just take the system into the back and beat it with a club until it's a bloody mess, and then try to bandage it up, you're not going to do that. This is why Iron Heroes had to build everything from the ground up, using the d20 framework.

Expecting a DM to do that just to get what he wants out of his game, and if he doesn't, he lacks skill? That's just offensive.

D&D is a game system, built with certain assumptions in the system. It does D&D very well.

Conan is a system built to run Conan very well. Spirit of the Century is built to run Pulp very well. CoC and Dread are built for 'weak mortals against the unbeatable Lovecraftian horrors from beyond'.

Why fight so hard with D&D to make it do a half-assed job of the above rather than just pick up a system that is designed to do what you want it to do? The only answers are "I Only Play D&D" or "I can't find players who'll sit down and learn another system."
 
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