Definitive LA+0 Reptilian and Feline Races

[Arkhandus]

Seems fine to me, though a tad on the weaker side. I'd perhaps have Natural Grace also grant +2 on Balance and Move Silently checks.

BTW, what roles do the new reptilian races from MoI fill? Seems to me that there's plenty of room for one more race of some sort, unless those reptiles neatly fit the warrior and primitive/naturist roles. The Almaren fill the bard/sorcerer/cultured-fellow role, but none of these really fill a wizened, scholarly, or philosophical role, so to speak. In other words, most of them would make rather poor wizards, rangers, paladins, clerics, druids, or the like. The various Str/Con penalties going around amongst the Almaren, Malken, and I'm betting at one of the reptilian races too, make for poor frontline combatants, and humans aren't particularly great at the role (though quite fair, they aren't especially suited to it like dwarves or half-orcs). Likewise, humans are the only one that makes a good wizard, though Almaren are decent as such; the Constitution penalties hurt the wizard. Perhaps some race of toughened or intellectual critters may be called for?

 

[Thia Halmades]

Not that I'm one for writing for free, but...

I went to school. Once.

You! Stop laughing.

I know what this is like. I'll lend you a model I'm using for a separate sub-race in my own campaign. Here's some basics:

Race: Sheebans (Catfolk)
Ht: Small. They receive all small creature adjustments.
Base Land Speed: 30' (Sheebanites are faster than average small creatures)
Favored Class: Ranger
Adjustments: +4 Dex, -2 Con, -2 Int. Sheebans are fantastically agile, and while strong, their bone structure isn't as sound as most other races, making them somewhat more fragile (-2 Con). Their combination of curiousity and aloofness (-2 Int) don't go over well with others, but their curiousity serves them well in their ability to combine ideas quickly and puzzle solve well. Sheebanites, by nature, are natural hunters.

Additional Notes

* Low Light Vision (120'). Sheebanites have exceptional low light vision.
* Feat Option: Scent. Sheebanites are much closer to their heritage than other people tend to be, and as such, they may opt to take the Scent feat.
* +2 Racial bonus on all Reflex Based saving throws. They're fast. Darn fast.
* +2 Racial bonus on all Climb, Jump, Balance & Move Silently checks.
* +2 Racial bonus on all Survival Checks.
* Natural Weapons; Sheebanites deal d4 natural damage
* Awkward Shape [DMO Flavor Rule]; Sheebanite armor & equipment is more expensive, as it has to be built around their unique physique (150% normal cost).

As an evolved hunting species, Sheebanites can be found all over. They blend well in most settings and environments, their ability to track makes them invaluable in both urban and forest settings. Excellent survivalists, most Sheebanites keep a long catalogue of what to hunt where, and can often be met while traveling looking for a new trophy for their walls. Sheebanites are far more connected to their feral natures than most other people. They prefer the ways of the Forest -- Barbarian, Druid & Ranger -- to the ways of the arcanist, but Wizards are not unheard of, and Sorcerers are becoming increasingly common among them.

Sheebanites are loners, and while many people find them exotic, their own desire to strike out, roam free and "be themselves" keeps most people at bay. Sheebanites are slow to trust; it would be more fair to say they don't trust anyone at all. Self reliant from a few short years after birth, they've learned to make it on their own without much aid.

Because of their natural ties, they tend towards Chaotic alignments. Sheebanites value freedom as their highest ideal, and will find themselves unwittingly (so they claim) involved in struggles where the defense of the innocent or the removal of oppression are involved. Organizing a group of Sheebanites is nigh impossible.

That would be like herding cats.

LCpt. Thia Halmades

 

[Thia Halmades]

Reptilian Races

Magic of Incarnum; wanted to say Races of Eberron. I didn't really like their reptile race; more like a variant built using the Unearthed Arcana rules. But meh.

 

[Masquerade]

I just completed a rounded out race list and handed it to my players. Along with humans, malkens, and almaren, it includes the LA+0 races from Magic of Incarnum and Expanded Psionics Handbook, the illumians, sea kin, and mongrelfolk from Races of Destiny, and the shifters and changelings from Races of Eberron. The players seem satisfied, so right now I will just concentrate on perfecting the malken race.

Thanks for posting your race, Thia Halmades. I may take some of your ideas into consideration.

The two reptilian races in Magic of Incarnum are different sides of the same coin. One is Str-2/Dex+2 and has abilities relating to knowledge. The other is Str+2/Dex-2 and has spines similar to the Planar Handbook's spiker race. I already have one player desiring to play each of them, which will make for an interesting dynamic later if a rivalry makes itself present.


Thanks everyone for your posts thusfar. Being on the younger and less experienced end of the spectrum, it helps knowing that I can always come here with questions.

 

[Thia Halmades]

No problem. Glad I could be of assistance.

LCpt. Thia Halmades

 

[Nyaricus]

My comments and my version . . .

The players seem satisfied, so right now I will just concentrate on perfecting the malken race.

heres how i would do it . . . .

Type is Humanoid (Malken)
Medium Size
Malken Land Speed is 30 feet (maybe 40; are not cats faster than they should be for tiny size?)
+2 Dex, +2 Cha, -2 Str, -2 Con
Keen Ears - +2 racial bonus to Listen
Natural Grace - +2 racial bonus to Move Silently and Balance. Balance is always a class skill.
Swift Jump - Add dex instead of str mod to jump checks
Wandering Mind - -1 save vs enchantment/charm effects, -2 racial penalty to sense motive and concentration checks
Lowlight vision
Favored Class: Rogue

i like the +2 Cha, instead of +4 dex, because otherwise its too much in one area, and with all the Malken's bonuses in Dex areas, it makes sense. Also, cats (in real life) are kinda smooth in a way . . .they can manipulate you to give 'em food, but wont show on hint of affection to you once it happens . . till the next time. kinda fits a rougish personality, don't you think?
also, with swift jump goblinM, you allow them to add both Dex and Str to their jump checks, with the wording you gave. i think adding in "instead of str" is better, adn fits their pysiology. Also, the bonus to listen, move silently and balance fits the Malkens. Cats silenty can run along fences and such, and they have big ears for a reason.
other than that, i think i like what we have; i might use this race for my world even

Thanks everyone for your posts thusfar. Being on the younger and less experienced end of the spectrum, it helps knowing that I can always come here with questions.

hey! no problem, i know whast its like to be a bit inexperienced for these sort of calls. I started DMing this spring on my birthday infact (it was a D&D party > i am a nerd, i admit it) so yeah, i know where you are coming from. Anyways, enjoy, and feel free to comment on my version

 

[Masquerade]

You make some interesting points.

i like the +2 Cha, instead of +4 dex, because otherwise its too much in one area, and with all the Malken's bonuses in Dex areas, it makes sense.

The player's handbook does not give out bonuses to mental ability scores. I believe that this is because the bonus is far too beneficial for spellcasters. The almaren were created for the purpose of having a charisma-based race; it says so in the thread. Having two +cha races in the campaign feels a bit unbalanced. Also, I see malkens as being much more dextrous than the average humanoid, enough to warrant the +4 even. However, your point is well argued, so I haven't yet decided which version I will use.

also, with swift jump goblinM, you allow them to add both Dex and Str to their jump checks, with the wording you gave. i think adding in "instead of str" is better, adn fits their pysiology.

I would go that route, except that punishes the rare malkens who do have high strength scores.

(maybe 40; are not cats faster than they should be for tiny size?)

Wouldn't such an increase in speed almost call for a level adjustment by itself? I don't think I'm experienced enough to make the call, but it seems a bit powerful to me. Also, that would be stealing a bit of the xeph's (xph) thunder.

Also, the bonus to listen, move silently and balance fits the Malkens.

The +4 dexterity already makes them effective rather effective at move silently and balance. Any more would almost seem redundant.

I started DMing this spring on my birthday infact

I discovered D&D about 3 years ago, but have only actually played in a handful of campaigns, unless you count the amateurish games I ran for my friends back in the day. However, I read these boards a lot, and really hope to keep up the hobby for many years to come.

 

[Knight Otu]

I believe that this is because the bonus is far too beneficial for spellcasters.

About as much as a Strength bonus would be far too benefitial for martial characters. It's true that Wizards is reluctant to create races with a bonus to mental ability scores, but that is to avoid overshadowing elves (who are supposed to be great wizards, without the mechanics to back that up). The same way you want to avoid overshadowing the almaren.

The almaren were created for the purpose of having a charisma-based race; it says so in the thread. Having two +cha races in the campaign feels a bit unbalanced.

 

[Nyaricus]

The player's handbook does not give out bonuses to mental ability scores. I believe that this is because the bonus is far too beneficial for spellcasters. The almaren were created for the purpose of having a charisma-based race; it says so in the thread. Having two +cha races in the campaign feels a bit unbalanced. Also, I see malkens as being much more dextrous than the average humanoid, enough to warrant the +4 even. However, your point is well argued, so I haven't yet decided which version I will use.

well, the fact is, you have multiple races that are +2 in other ability scores, why is Cha getting the short end of the stick? I dont see a problem, and why limit when you can have a greater variety. The Way i see it; Caster characters are harder to play because of the all the prep beforehand, but in combat they have only a few things to remeber > spellsave DCs, ASF, etc, whereas Warriors have almost no prep but in combat have a multitude of options, but most players dont exploit these and generally call fighters "crappy" and such. Thats why i am 50/50 on whether fighters are truely redundant at higher levels >you could make one that is good in any situation that combat throws at you, and yet many peoepl make ones that focus on so many little things. Apollogies for the rant, but thast just the way i am seeing things.

also, with swift jump goblinM, you allow them to add both Dex and Str to their jump checks, with the wording you gave. i think adding in "instead of str" is better, adn fits their pysiology.

is what i said, and you responded with . . .

I would go that route, except that punishes the rare malkens who do have high strength scores.

then heres an idea > Swift Jump: if it is too their advantage, Malkens may use their Dex mod instead of their Str mod with Jump checks. there, now they can go either way, adn it still suits them. some take after their smaller and quicker ancestors, and some talk after their stronger feline ancestors

Wouldn't such an increase in speed almost call for a level adjustment by itself? I don't think I'm experienced enough to make the call, but it seems a bit powerful to me. Also, that would be stealing a bit of the xeph's (xph) thunder.

i was basically leaving that up to debate. obviously, you wouldnt go for that. thats okay. i was just stating a fact (BTW, a cats base speed IS 30 feet, and the cat is Tiny size, just to let all know)

The +4 dexterity already makes them effective rather effective at move silently and balance. Any more would almost seem redundant.

yes, but you have to look at it from the games POV. yes, they are quicker than normal (+x amount of Dex) but with certain skills, they are even more dexterous. its a racial bonus to a dex-oriented skill; obviously they are a dexterous race. Also for the normal basic races, Halflings have +2 dex and get +2 move silently. Obviously, this isnt overpowered, or inappropriate if there is a basis for it.

I discovered D&D about 3 years ago, but have only actually played in a handful of campaigns, unless you count the amateurish games I ran for my friends back in the day. However, I read these boards a lot, and really hope to keep up the hobby for many years to come.

for myself, i started playing 6 years ago when i was 11 and we were in AD&D Forgotten Realms, with but one supplement. Then, we smartened up and realised that we there was a newer edition out, and we jumped on it. i havent looked back since, and i haev been trying to build a world for 4 years and counting. Altogether, one of my favourite pastimes (other then listening to Meta and Rock \m/ )

 

[Nyaricus]

hmmm, took a second look at Almarens, and realised that they only gain +2 Cha (i had thought they got +4). perhaps you could edit them a bit; to have such a master of craftsmanship, maybe you could give them +2 Int too, and add -2 Str/ another -2 to Con (for a total of -4)?

I am just throwing ideas around; i personally think that +4 to any given ability is overpowered for a +0 LA race. maybe you could drop the +4 dex to +2, and drop the Con penalty. That way, they fill in the halfings roll pretty well, but with their own (well developed) flavor. Since, in essence, this is a substitute for the Halfing race, i dont see a problem with that; they are medium size, which is already better damage than the halfing (weapon size damage varients in mind here)