Didn't Bruce Leroy from that movie The Last Dragon deflect an arrow while blindfolded by chopping it in half? I'd say it's an argument for allowing the deflection even if you can't see it visually because it fits right in the genre of heroic fantasy for the skilled to be more aware of their surroundings. Don't forget that he managed to do this before he got "the Glow!"</cheesy_80's_movie_reference>
Deflect Arrows Question
- Thread starter Minosis
- Start date
Lord Pendragon
First Post
Bonus points for mentioning one of my favorite 80's movies!Chorn said:
You have to be aware of the attack, not see it. Unless the attacker was also silenced, I'd allow the defender a listen check to hear the "twang" of the bow firing. If he makes it, he's aware of the attack and can deflect it.
I'd also allow Uncanny Dodge to permit Deflect Arrows. UD is all about being uncannily aware of things you can't see.
The Minotaur's ability strikes me more as having lightning-quick reaction time rather than extra-sensory perception, so I wouldn't allow it to permit Deflect Arrows.
VorpalStare
First Post
Well, I think we've determined that the real question that needs to be answered is how much you are aware of an attack through the Uncanny Dodge ability.
Looking at the uncanny dodge description it seems pretty clear that it lets you react to an attack before you can sense it:
It's reasonable to assume that Uncanny Dodge let's you know that you are being attacked (Otherwise, how would you know to react?), but nowhere in the feat does it say that you get to know where the attack is coming from, what form of attack it is, or who is attacking you. The whole point of the ability is that you can uncannily react to an attack with less information that most people need to defend themselves.
Consider this analogy:
Instead of being shot by an arrow from an invisible archer, assume, instead, that the target is about to be attacked by someone with improved invisibility. The target knows the attack is coming and readies an action to "disarm anyone who attacks me". If the target fails listen and spot checks, etc. to discern the attacker, she will not know what direction the attack is coming from, what kind of attack it is (Sword?, quarterstaff? trip? Grapple?), what kind of creature is attacking. (Human? Pixie? Demon? Stirge?), or where the attack is going to hit her, (Face?, Torso? Feet?) She can't know all of these important details without being able to see the attack (not just know that it is happening).
Under these circumstances, would you allow her to attempt the disarm? I would not, even if the attacker were trying to stab her with a hand-held arrow and she had the deflect arrows feat.
Looking at the uncanny dodge description it seems pretty clear that it lets you react to an attack before you can sense it:
It's reasonable to assume that Uncanny Dodge let's you know that you are being attacked (Otherwise, how would you know to react?), but nowhere in the feat does it say that you get to know where the attack is coming from, what form of attack it is, or who is attacking you. The whole point of the ability is that you can uncannily react to an attack with less information that most people need to defend themselves.
Consider this analogy:
Instead of being shot by an arrow from an invisible archer, assume, instead, that the target is about to be attacked by someone with improved invisibility. The target knows the attack is coming and readies an action to "disarm anyone who attacks me". If the target fails listen and spot checks, etc. to discern the attacker, she will not know what direction the attack is coming from, what kind of attack it is (Sword?, quarterstaff? trip? Grapple?), what kind of creature is attacking. (Human? Pixie? Demon? Stirge?), or where the attack is going to hit her, (Face?, Torso? Feet?) She can't know all of these important details without being able to see the attack (not just know that it is happening).
Under these circumstances, would you allow her to attempt the disarm? I would not, even if the attacker were trying to stab her with a hand-held arrow and she had the deflect arrows feat.
VorpalStare
First Post
I assumed that the target failed to see the attack coming, either because the arrow is itself invisible, or because she failed her spot and listen checks. If either of those conditions is not true, then she can intercept the attack, if she is otherwise eligible to do so.
Lord Pendragon
First Post
Isn't this the definition of being "aware" of an attack?VorpalStare said:
I agree. Luckily nowhere in the description of Deflect Arrows does it state you need to know any of these things.
It's a zen thing. The feat is meant to emulate Bruce Leeroy (not specifically perhaps, but the type of feat he performs in The Last Dragon.) For those poor souls who haven't seen the movie, Leeroy is blindfolded on one side of the room, while his master fires arrows at him from the other end. All of the arrows are marked with an orange stripe, which Leeroy dodges. Eventually, he breaks one of the arrows (while still being blindfolded) instead of dodging it. When he takes off his blindfold, he sees that the arrow he destroyed had a blue stripe, instead of an orange one.
Master: How did you know that that was the blue one?
Leeroy: I-I do not know.
Master: Congratulations, you have passed the test.
Leeroy: But Master, I do not understand...
Master: You knew...without knowing.
Uncanny Dodge is like that. Knowing...without knowing.
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
Lord Pendragon said:
Wait... doesn't he break all of them, until he catches the last one?
I haven't seen that movie in years!
-Hyp.
Lord Pendragon
First Post
Once again, you're correct. I had it backwards. He breaks each of the orange ones, then catches the blue one in his fist.Hypersmurf said:
I'm pretty sure the dialogue is slightly off too, but you get the picture.
