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<blockquote data-quote="Rook" data-source="post: 162221" data-attributes="member: 418">My thoughts on Deities and Demigods match the ones that Ancalagon has expressed here and elsewhere.&nbsp; The rules simply aren't that good and need substantial revision.&nbsp; I can't imagine that playing a game that actually *used* these rules would be much fun, let along balanced.&nbsp; There are several problems:1)&nbsp; The &quot;Always Max&quot; rules.&nbsp; Deities frequently get an automatic 20 on checks and Greater Deities get maximum results with any random die roll.&nbsp; This sounds cool for a minute, but that's about how long it takes to see the problem with it.&nbsp; It completely destroys any element of chance and reduces situations where deities are in conflict to pre-determination.&nbsp; 2)&nbsp; Large check bonuses.&nbsp; This may seem a bit strange, but the modifiers found in this book are simply too big.&nbsp; I don't mean that the numbers are too large.&nbsp; I mean that a single item, feat or such can completely overwhelm the variability of the d20.&nbsp; Indomitable Strength makes grapple checks a complete formality unless your opponent is far stronger than you or has the same bonus.3)&nbsp; High saves combined with the &quot;no failure on a natural 1&quot;.&nbsp; Look at Boccob.&nbsp; He's the God of Magic.&nbsp; His spells have a DC of 30+ S.L.&nbsp; Note that essentially *no* gods in the Greyhawk pantheon have the slightest chance of failing a save against his spells.&nbsp; Boccob simply can't use most of his spells against his fellow deities.&nbsp; However, note that for the most part, divine Spell Resistance is useless against the gods.&nbsp; Gods add divine bonus to caster level checks and most get &quot;auto 20&quot; on such.&nbsp; This means that most gods will automatically pierce any SR on a fellow god.&nbsp; I see Harm as a very popular spell, since SR is mostly useless in divine spell combat and saves are impossible to miss.All above combine to make:4)&nbsp; &quot;I Win, You Lose&quot;&nbsp; As I looked over the Greyhawk gods, the main thing I noticed is how *rotten* conflicts between them would play out.&nbsp; It's almost always &quot;X beats Y&quot;, with no significant chance for error.&nbsp; Of course, any deity with Annihilating Strike is almost assured one attack victory against any being of lower Divine Rank.&nbsp; However, even beyond such obviously broken abilities, all too often results are either pre-determined success or hopeless failure.&nbsp; I just don't see the rules as being much *fun* when used, the most cardinal sin in my book.&nbsp; You'll have to take extreme care to avoid pitfalls as that in using D&amp;Dg.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Rook, post: 162221, member: 418"] My thoughts on Deities and Demigods match the ones that Ancalagon has expressed here and elsewhere. The rules simply aren't that good and need substantial revision. I can't imagine that playing a game that actually *used* these rules would be much fun, let along balanced. There are several problems: 1) The "Always Max" rules. Deities frequently get an automatic 20 on checks and Greater Deities get maximum results with any random die roll. This sounds cool for a minute, but that's about how long it takes to see the problem with it. It completely destroys any element of chance and reduces situations where deities are in conflict to pre-determination. 2) Large check bonuses. This may seem a bit strange, but the modifiers found in this book are simply too big. I don't mean that the numbers are too large. I mean that a single item, feat or such can completely overwhelm the variability of the d20. Indomitable Strength makes grapple checks a complete formality unless your opponent is far stronger than you or has the same bonus. 3) High saves combined with the "no failure on a natural 1". Look at Boccob. He's the God of Magic. His spells have a DC of 30+ S.L. Note that essentially *no* gods in the Greyhawk pantheon have the slightest chance of failing a save against his spells. Boccob simply can't use most of his spells against his fellow deities. However, note that for the most part, divine Spell Resistance is useless against the gods. Gods add divine bonus to caster level checks and most get "auto 20" on such. This means that most gods will automatically pierce any SR on a fellow god. I see Harm as a very popular spell, since SR is mostly useless in divine spell combat and saves are impossible to miss. All above combine to make: 4) "I Win, You Lose" As I looked over the Greyhawk gods, the main thing I noticed is how *rotten* conflicts between them would play out. It's almost always "X beats Y", with no significant chance for error. Of course, any deity with Annihilating Strike is almost assured one attack victory against any being of lower Divine Rank. However, even beyond such obviously broken abilities, all too often results are either pre-determined success or hopeless failure. I just don't see the rules as being much *fun* when used, the most cardinal sin in my book. You'll have to take extreme care to avoid pitfalls as that in using D&Dg. [/QUOTE]

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