Demogorgon picture

incognito · Nov 6, 2002

Yeah MONTY w'sup with that?

I liked Geyron, and I like Grazz't, not that I remeber him from S4.

Flexor the Mighty! · Nov 6, 2002

He was listed in the second booklet that had a bunch of new monsters & magic items. They had several Princes & Lords in it.

Gizzard · Nov 7, 2002

Sees like were missing some.

I just covered the Demon Princes, not the Devils. The Devils seemed to have chanegd around so much I didnt bother going over them. That, and I am lazy. ;-)

But since its been requested:

Asmodeus: 3E. I like Fisch's pic here, its abstract and strange, but still menacing. Could be the pentragram staff or the skull that Mr. A is absentmindedly tossing. The 1E Asmodeus is not bad, but again, pretty literal. The blank eyes never worked for me.

Baalzebul: 1E by a longshot. The original fly-eyed guy with his stark lines and crossed arms; look at that body language. ;-) BoVD is damaged by the conception, is there anything you can do with a giant slug to make it look cool? Probably, but its not easy and the BoVD artist didnt find the answer.

Dispater: Tossup. The 1E is a crude little quirky guy with his bald head, cloven hooves and tail. He's not high art, but he's got personality. The BoVD guy is a much better rendering, but altogether lacking in personality. Seriously, cover his name up and ask someone to guess if its Dispater, Fzoul Chyrnobyl (what is that guys name!?) or "generic module villian".

Geryon: 1E, by default. Apparently Geryon got the shaft during some infernal dealings and is now biding his time in an iron box next to Asmodeus' infernal toilet. The old pic wasnt that great and would have been slaughtered if it had any competition. Like the new Mammon. That thing is great.

Well almost all points. Graz'zt did indeed exist back in 1e.

For me, 1E is only the core books, because thats all I bought back then. ;-) So if its not in the DMG, PHB or MM it doesnt exist for me. I realize that its self-centered, but thats the way it is. ;-)

BigFreekinGoblinoid · Nov 7, 2002

Mercule said:
Dunno. I actually like the way Demogorgon looks. It's weird and unearthly. Demogorgon is actually my favorite fiend. Definitely agree that the BG2 pics are the best I've seen.

If the Colonel is floating around here, I'd be interested to hear whether he made the description up, or if he pulled it from somewhere (and if so, where).

I asked Col Pladoh about Demogorgon's origins on the still on-going "ask Gary Gygax" thread. Very inspired creation he was. Definitely my favorite demon ever.

The pic in Dragon 291 is cool, but just a bust ( busts? ) shot.

The BoVD picture is reprinted in the latest Dungeon magazine
if you wanna check it out ( i think it's in the "sealed" section though...)

LAME picture IMO. Way too skinny & not scaly enough. And the heads? Oy, don't get me started! Reading above how this may have been a proofing mistake is just sad...

Yig · Nov 8, 2002

I see your point KM. It's just that I expected something more imposing. Must be because of the demons/devils pictures in MM1 and 2 with all those horns and wings.

I never saw any material for 1e ... Except the D&D Rulecyclopedia but I'm not even sure that's 1e

Yeah we actually played this for a while.

tarchon · Nov 8, 2002

Hmm.. . as it happens, I have copy of a page from a 15th century incunabulum on my desk describing the big D.
<blockquote>
noíe ipso horribilis: pallore quodá muscoso:& neglecta humiditate amictus:terrestré:tetrú:foetidúq[ue] evaporás odoré:

Horrible in the very [name?]: with a certain mossy paleness: and wrapped in unkempt wetness: giving off earthy, loathsome, and fetid odors.
</blockquote>

Boccacio - <I>De Genealogia Deorum Libri</i>

Demogorgon · Nov 8, 2002

tarchon said:
Hmm.. . as it happens, I have copy of a page from a 15th century incunabulum on my desk describing the big D.
<blockquote>
noíe ipso horribilis: pallore quodá muscoso:& neglecta humiditate amictus:terrestré:tetrú:foetidúq[ue] evaporás odoré:

Horrible in the very [name?]: with a certain mossy paleness: and wrapped in unkempt wetness: giving off earthy, loathsome, and fetid odors.
</blockquote>

Boccacio - <I>De Genealogia Deorum Libri</i>

And that's AFTER my bath!

Kai Lord · Nov 8, 2002

Gizzard said:
Orcus: 1E. OK, this is where my bias starts to show. The BoVD pic is a fine rendering of a generic, big demon, but is it Orcus? No, Orcus has a fat tummy and a goat head, just like in the 1E picture. How do I know? Well, because thats the way it was in 1E.

Unreal. "The Demon Lords are supposed to look totally stupid and like my six-year old nephew drew them with crayons because that's how they looked in 1e."

incognito · Nov 8, 2002

Kai;

wasn't that jsut a bit inflamatory?

Gizzard · Nov 8, 2002

wasn't that jsut a bit inflamatory?

Oh, he probably just drew the new Orcus and was jealous of my verdict in favor of the old Orcus. So I'll repeat it: 1E Orcus crushes 3E Orcus despite being drawn with crayons! ;-)

(Or maybe he is Orcus and he thought the 1E pic was unflattering -- Orcus:" Minion, tell the truth, does my butt look that fat?")

Seriously though, Dispater is a better example of the "personality" issue which afflicts 3E Orcus. I wouldnt want to put 1E Dispater in my portfolio and try to shop it around for art jobs; its just not that good a picture technically. But it does have a lot of personality, while the 3E version has about zero. 3E Dispater is quite the generic monstrous villian, forgotten seconds after you see him. But people remember the 1E Dispater -- "Oh yeah, the little bald dude with the satyr legs" -- even 20 years later.

The same thing with Orcus. The 3E guy perfect portfolio fodder because he's technically fine and he could be friggen anything -- "Here, look, I can draw generic demons." But if the editor switched it accidentally with the pic of Bal, would anyone notice? Nope. Because he's more a random big demon than he is Orcus. So, the 1E version wins out.