D&D General Demons, Devils, and Officiality in D&D

[Maxperson]

I am a bit annoyed with the succubus.

OD&D they are chaotic and evil demons.

1e, 2e, 3.0, 3.5, Pathfinder they are Chaotic Evil demons. (2e they are Chaotic Evil Tanari).

4e they are Evil devils.

Later 4e they are Evil devils some of whom accompany the Archdevil Grazz't into the Abyss and become demons along with him.

5e they are Neutral Evil fiends of indeterminate sort.

I'd prefer if their demon type had stayed the same throughout.

I hadn't looked at the 5e version yet. Now that I have and see what you are talking about, they are definitely demons in my 5e game.

 

[Wyckedemus]

I am a bit annoyed with the succubus.

OD&D they are chaotic and evil demons.

1e, 2e, 3.0, 3.5, Pathfinder they are Chaotic Evil demons. (2e they are Chaotic Evil Tanari).

4e they are Evil devils.

Later 4e they are Evil devils some of whom accompany the Archdevil Grazz't into the Abyss and become demons along with him.

5e they are Neutral Evil fiends of indeterminate sort.

I'd prefer if their demon type had stayed the same throughout.

I prefer how Succubi/Incubi are portrayed in 5e (including being gender-fluid based so they can adapt to who they want to tempt/corrupt), and I use them as [Any] Evil fiends that can be from any lower plane. Temptation and corruption can be levied from any alignment perspective. I like when players can't be comfortable assuming the motivation of such a creature. If the creatures are set in an alignment, it's too easy to predict. For example "The incubus is a devil, and we know devils want to make deals, so we can estimate their angle or what they value and we can work with that", or "The succubus is a demon, which means they only want to destroy, and we don't need to consider what they offer"

 

[Alzrius]

I prefer how Succubi/Incubi are portrayed in 5e (including being gender-fluid based so they can adapt to who they want to tempt/corrupt), and I use them as [Any] Evil fiends that can be from any lower plane. Temptation and corruption can be levied from any alignment perspective.

That idea always makes me shake my head, because temptation/corruption was never the succubus's goal; people got that from the whole "sexy + woman + evil = temptress" idea.

Succubi, in older editions of D&D, have always been black widows [insert ScarJo quip here]. They're not trying to tempt you into anything, except a secluded place where they can drain your life force without interruption and then kip off before someone finds your body. That's why they have enchantment powers, since otherwise you might say no. Corrupting your morals is someone else's job.

 

[Voadam]

That idea always makes me shake my head, because temptation/corruption was never the succubus's goal; people got that from the whole "sexy + woman + evil = temptress" idea.

Succubi, in older editions of D&D, have always been black widows [insert ScarJo quip here]. They're not trying to tempt you into anything, except a secluded place where they can drain your life force without interruption and then kip off before someone finds your body. That's why they have enchantment powers, since otherwise you might say no. Corrupting your morals is someone else's job.

It has varied. 2e talks about them as temptresses.

2e's Monstrous Compendium Appendix 8 Outer Planes says "Beautiful and seductive, the succubi are the temptresses of mortals. While the glabrezu (q.v.) are the subtle tempters of men of power, the succubi are temptresses of men of passion and energy."

"Habitat/Society The temptresses of the lower planes are subtle and slow. It is their way to cause mortals to succumb to their charms and beauty, ultimately bringing about the mortals' deaths. They often have passionate encounters with mortal men, only to later destroy them and take their life forces to the Abyss"

 

[Alzrius]

It has varied. 2e talks about them as temptresses.

Sure, in terms of tempting you into letting your guard down, not to change your alignment. I'd bold a different part of that last paragraph.

"Habitat/Society The temptresses of the lower planes are subtle and slow. It is their way to cause mortals to succumb to their charms and beauty, ultimately bringing about the mortals' deaths. They often have passionate encounters with mortal men, only to later destroy them and take their life forces to the Abyss"

 

[cbwjm]

What struck me about that letter is that people have been asking for official answers to weird questions all the way back in 1e. I'm not actually surprised, it's just funny to see these questions back in dragon magazine, small wonder they waited for an issue to do a joke response for that one.

 

[el-remmen]

Seems strange to introduce a monster that is specifically the result of a human sleeping with a succubus and then claim she is not supposed to be a seductress at least in part.

Anyway, arguing about succubi is not what I imagined this thread would b about.

 

[Rabulias]

1e, 2e, 3.0, 3.5, Pathfinder they are Chaotic Evil demons. (2e they are Chaotic Evil Tanari).

4e they are Evil devils.

Later 4e they are Evil devils some of whom accompany the Archdevil Grazz't into the Abyss and become demons along with him.

5e they are Neutral Evil fiends of indeterminate sort.

Maybe a 4e player can confirm this, but I heard that in 4e they got rid of the erinyes and combined some aspects of it to the succubus. Perhaps part of that remained in 5e, even though they did restore the erinyes?

 

[RoughCoronet0]

Maybe a 4e player can confirm this, but I heard that in 4e they got rid of the erinyes and combined some aspects of it to the succubus. Perhaps part of that remained in 5e, even though they did restore the erinyes?

They didn’t get rid of the Erinyes in 4e, they just weren’t released officially until the second monster manual for the edition came out.

They were also more inspired from the Furies of Greek myth then being devil versions of succubus.

 

[David Howery]

Heh. I remember that question/issue too. Dragon got a lot of weird questions back in the day. One of my favorites was "How do you gladiate in D&D?"