Demons & Devils - the difference?

[Andrew D. Gable]

Well, other than alignment.

I see demons as representative of more primal urges - the majority of the Seven Deadly Sins (Lust, Gluttony, Anger, Sloth) would be demonic, while more complex areas (Greed, Envy, Pride) would be diabolic.

What's the consensus? When making outsiders, I find it hard to classify them.

 

[Crothian]

I think the alignments is key. It's ordered evil verse unordered evil.

 

[Mr Fidgit]

It's ordered evil verse unordered evil.

that sounds like something you'd hear at The Restaurant at the End of the Universe (or something...)

"Demon?! I didn't order this! Send it back!"


i really don't find a need to 'classify' them - per se. the devils are the sneaky, behind-the-scenes, tempt you into corruption -types, and the demon are the obvert, wanton destruction, kill-you-and-eat-you because that's their job and they're good at it -types

 

[Tonguez]

i really don't find a need to 'classify' them - per se. the devils are the sneaky, behind-the-scenes, tempt you into corruption -types, and the demon are the obvert, wanton destruction, kill-you-and-eat-you because that's their job and they're good at it -types

I never liked the idea of Devil as Monster used in roleplaying games and much prefer the Devil as Evil Spirit that whispers in your sleep and tempts you into vice. They exploit the natural inclinations of mortals to take the easy path and to indulge in fleshy desires. (ie Devils Tempt and Seduce - they want your soul)

Demons on the other hand are your 'Monsters from Hell' they don't care about your soul, they only want you to suffer as much pain as possible before you are torn to peices, 'pillaged' and eaten (not necessarily in that order)

sort of what Mr Fidgit said but different

 

[s/LaSH]

If you do deal with devils as monsters, remember they're lawful. They have to obey some sort of code. They keep their word and probably don't lie, but are good at twisting things. Really good at twisting things. On the other hand, many of them have to obey really weird laws; some Chinese fiends you can defeat by throwing rice at them, wherupon they have to count every grain. While not all laws are that weird, look at a vampire for a myth that's really, really weird if you think about it, and work from there.

Devils (may) have a kind of honour. They will surrender if you're about to beat them, and they may well allow you to escape or survive if you are about to be beaten. (Although survival as a devil's slave or servant isn't always pleasant.) However, they don't tend to enter combat all that often, perhaps because they're not allowed to overtly interfere on the Prime Plane without an invitation (ie. summoning), and they stick to that law, preferring to communicate, manipulate and corrupt from a distance, as detailed beforehand.

Overall, this treatment of devils reminds me greatly of old fairy stories about devils, who are usually quite nice except for the whole slavery and inhuman destructive power thing.

Demons, on the other hand, are just plain nasty. Their nature is lawless, and so they're free to cause whatever havoc they want. And they really like havoc. However, they are chaotic. This sort of passionate approach to evil is, in a way, a disadvantage, because demons are so evil they're perverse. If a demon lord wants to lure a party of adventurers into the Crypt Of Unspeakable Doom to set it free, it will still try to kill them on the way in because that's what it does. Demons are almost self-destructive; they're quite definitely insane by human standards.

Overall, demons are typical of more modern concepts such as Lovecraft or Barker-esque outsiders, beings that are truly nasty, both in manner and visage, and don't obey our laws. They're also more powerful in melee than devils, if you compare the ranks.

Of course, there's nothing to stop you creating an amalgam race of fiends that are both senselessly destructive and affected by strict laws... it's just less easy to do with alignments.

 

[Silver Moon]

Devil vs. Demon

One other key difference - they hate each other.

I ran a campaign last year where the climax battle was set on the CE Plane of the Abyss (Demon land). Several Devil enemies of the party found themselves trapped there, and the playing characters had to temporarily work with the demons to defeat them. They had to be especially careful to not get stabbed in the back by their CE allies, including a Drow. It was a lot of fun.

(Shameless Plug - That adventure is currently being posted on Story Hour as "Chinese Take-out".)

 

[Li Shenron]

They're also more powerful in melee than devils, if you compare the ranks.

I agree. Devils counter their less power with tactics, organization, strategy. A group of demons may win a battle only to immediately turn against each other and collapse

If you want to stress their difference, start easy and play devils lawful to the extreme, and demons chaotic to the extreme. Imagine Hell as a perfectly structured hierarchy (including embedded strategic betrayal - physiological of a tyranny) and Abyss as the most terrifying mess to behold.

 

[schporto]

When using devils or demons I'll use more of the long term/short term view. To me devils are more in favor of long drawn out torture. Demons the short nasty death. The devils wants you to convert to his side to help you with his army. The demon wants you dead and outta the way. If you joined his side then you're another power who could fight him. Take two parents and a child. The demon comes in and kills the parents and eats the kid. The devil stops just short of death for the parents, takes the kids, raises them, and uses them as shields against the parents. There was an old Dragon article (Best of Dragon VolII?) that talked about the politics of Hell. That's a usefull article to describe the devils at least. Was there anything like that written for demons?
-cpd

 

[Avatar28]

The abyss is full of anarchy. Demons doing what the please without regard for any others, fighting each other, stabbing each other in the back if they DO try to fight a common enemy, etc.

Hell is full of bureaucrats and politicians. If you want to get anything done in Hell, you've got to have the requisite forms, signed in triplicate, sent to a different department, lost, found, sent back, resent, signed, lost, and finally returned.

 

[Voadam]

One view you can take is that outsiders are just like elementals except for alignment instead of natural elements. So devils are PURE ELEMENTAL LAWFUL EVIL incarnate and demons are PURE ELEMENTAL CHAOTIC EVIL incarnate. Then just take your spin on the alignments and run with it for interactions.

Perhaps devils make pacts to cause evil and are strictly bound to the letter of those deals but twist them through loopholes and interpretations of ambiguous phrases. Or they could be completely reliable and if you are willing to pay their evil price you get what you bargained for. Another way to think of devils is as big time liars who work to get people to do things to meet grand long term bizantine goals, but that their essence is tempting and deception.

Perhaps demons occasionally make pacts and bargains but actually are not bound by them and sometimes betray their partners just to inflict misery upon them, other times they follow through on the pacts just because it would be fun to cause some havok. Perhaps their reactions are determined randomly so dealing with them is a gamble that can pay off in big dark power or go horribly wrong for no good reason.