Design and Development: Battlemind---going... going... gone

[ppaladin123]

Are we sure this wasn't just an error on the calendar (like the martial power 2 previews earlier this month)? There was a design and development article about the battlemind last month. It was by Mike Mearls and was all about his odd, feywild inspirations for the class and how it evolved from there.

 

[The Little Raven]

To be honest, that is my impression as well. Theorycraft/CO analysis tends to focus on a single number in comparison to numbers from other classes. I am not sure if that is an accurate representation of how much fun a class is to play.

Agreed. So much of theorycraft's "conventional wisdom" never comes to pass in any actual play scenario I've ever seen.

 

[ppaladin123]

And from what I've seen, this criticism stems from theorycraft, not from actual play. Just like most other theorycraft-based criticism, it is disputed by people who have seen it in action.

Check out the character optimization board over on the WotC forums. There are a a efw very large threads filled with play experience.

 

[chitzk0i]

My only experience with the battlemind was in D&D Encounters today; I ran one for 3 people, one of which was a battlemind. His ability seemed pretty cool. The person he marked took as much damage as it dealt. Seems pretty sweet to me.

It probably works OK for most monsters, but think about multi-attacking elites. You can only punish one attack, which'll be barely enough damage for an elite to notice. If you've paid your feat tax (Melee Training: Con), you have a standard-strength OA for monsters who feel like wandering off, but kobolds or goblins with their extra shifting will easily escape your Blurred Step. Or they could just shift and charge.

Somewhere I read a comment to the effect of "If the DM is using these tricks a lot, he's metagaming!" Unless the DM is metagaming the other direction and just has the monsters herd up on the defender just because he's the defender, then some amount of monsters are going to be trying to do their own thing. It's those monsters that I'm worried about. What tools do I have to deal with them?

As a fighter, I know that my OAs will stop an enemy in his tracks and if he shifts away, I'll have a hefty basic attack for him. Once I get guys adjacent to me, they have reasons to stay close to me, and if they wander off, there are feats I can take to beef up my OAs and combat challenge attacks.

What tools do battleminds get? Funnel power points into Whirling Defense Augment 1? Count on my daily power to improve my OAs? Wait until 3rd level or higher to pour points into a different augment 1? I guess it could be some combination of these factors.

Funny how reports from actual play, like those given in this very thread, dispute that claim.

I haven't seen any concrete examples. I've just seen people say, "It kicked ass!"

 

[Nahat Anoj]

Are we sure this wasn't just an error on the calendar (like the martial power 2 previews earlier this month)? There was a design and development article about the battlemind last month. It was by Mike Mearls and was all about his odd, feywild inspirations for the class and how it evolved from there.

I think this is the case. It was probably an accidental copy/paste or something like that.

I'd love to play a battlemind. My idea is for a "veteran of the psychic wars" guy who's like a grim and tough Jedi. I imagine him being bald but very well put together, as if Professor X had the body of Arnold Schwarzenegger in his prime (obviously this PC won't be confined to a wheel chair ).

As far as being an "effective" defender, I think they'll be at least acceptable. Most of the really good battlemind tank powers are daily stances that grant a really nice OA. So, if you want to be a battlemind tank, you take those powers.

 

[erf_beto]

Am I the only one who sees the potential for a Samurai in the Battlemind class? I mean, an armored warrior with 'strange powers' who instill fear into the heart of his enemies? All he needs is a big scary helm and a sword...

 

[thecasualoblivion]

I'm kind of working on a test run for the Battlemind, taking a level 10 Battlemind and four other squishies and putting them into a tough encounter to see how the Defender abilities of the Battlemind shape up.

 

[Obryn]

*shrug*

I'd love to see one in play, and the class has finally caught my attention, but I have to agree there's something wacky in the way it works. The two biggest flaws are...

(1) Blurred Step is an Opportunity Action. Unless you buff it with certain feats or magic items, this doesn't help all too much; ideally it should enable OA's, not replace them. Also, the fact that it's an interrupt instead of a reaction makes it insane. Changing it to a triggered free action would, IMO, make it an awesome and useful class feature and would make them suitably sticky.

(2) They have no way of making capable Basic Attacks, unless they take Melee Training. This was pretty okay for a Swordmage, since there was a Strength build which relied on Basic Attacks. For a Battlemind, whose powers are geared towards OA's, it's a feat tax. Not a huge deal, but there you have it.

Otherwise, I largely disagree with the CharOp folks. I think their marking mechanics, Mind Spike, etc. are fine.

-O

 

[thecasualoblivion]

*shrug*

I'd love to see one in play, and the class has finally caught my attention, but I have to agree there's something wacky in the way it works. The two biggest flaws are...

(1) Blurred Step is an Opportunity Action. Unless you buff it with certain feats or magic items, this doesn't help all too much; ideally it should enable OA's, not replace them. Also, the fact that it's an interrupt instead of a reaction makes it insane. Changing it to a triggered free action would, IMO, make it an awesome and useful class feature and would make them suitably sticky.

(2) They have no way of making capable Basic Attacks, unless they take Melee Training. This was pretty okay for a Swordmage, since there was a Strength build which relied on Basic Attacks. For a Battlemind, whose powers are geared towards OA's, it's a feat tax. Not a huge deal, but there you have it.

Otherwise, I largely disagree with the CharOp folks. I think their marking mechanics, Mind Spike, etc. are fine.

-O

There are also some deeper issues when you get past the obvious. First off is that the Battlemind, who lacks things that keep enemies next to him, is the least effective Defender at controlling multiple enemies. This was a common complaint for Paladins before Divine Power, and was fixed in spades in the supplement. It has become apparent as the game has progressed that Defenders need to attempt to engage multiple enemies to be most effective. At this point in time, the Battlemind's best strategy to accomplish this is to do stupid things and get himself surrounded and hope the enemies pile on him. Being possibly the most survivable Defender certainly helps. The second issue is that the other four Defenders aren't just Defenders. Defendering is generally accomplished by class features(Combat Challenge, Aegis, ect.) and a Defender can choose his powers so he goes a fair distance in fulfilling another role while still being a full on Defender. For example, Fighters who deal stupid damage, Paladins who heal, and Wardens who control terrain and push people. A lot of what makes these classes effective is their ability to dip into other roles while defendering, and the Battlemind seems to require much more in terms of tactical resources to fulfill the Defender role, leaving little to dabble in other roles.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

It probably works OK for most monsters, but think about multi-attacking elites. You can only punish one attack, which'll be barely enough damage for an elite to notice.

That is not different from any other defender. It actually has to be this way, because that Elite stands for two enemies. If the defender could punish each attack, he would be more effective against elites and solos than he is against other monsters.