Design and Development: Cosmology

[jasin]

"Unthinkably vast – thousands of miles" – huh? London to Jerusalem is ~3500 miles by road. That's not unthinkably vast. That's well within the experience of medieval Crusaders.

A pit as wide as a London-Jerusalem road and who knows how deep?

I don't think it's inappropriate to call that unthinkably vast.

 

[Klaus]

THIS article is good. Much better than the Demons & Devils one, and in fact should've been posted before that one.

Instead of the Ethereal connecting the Material Plane with the Inner Planes and the Astral connecting it to the Outer Planes, we have two parallel dimensions that reflect the Prime in an imperfect way, one "Limbo + Inner Planes + Abyss" and the Astral Plane with the old Outer Planes as pocket domains.

Note that none of the old Outer Planes (not even the Abyss) are endless as they used to be. The largest ones are planet-sized.

As for names, I'll be changing Shadowfell to Shadowlands and Feywild with Faerie.

 

[Branduil]

Keep in mind that thousands of miles probably would be unthinkably vast for characters in the points of light world.

I think living in the age of the internet, airplanes, and spaceships has given us a skewed view of distance.

 

[Remathilis]

So lets see...

Heroic Domains of Ysgard: Unknown
Ever-Changing Chaos of Limbo: Merged with Elemental Vortex
Windswept Depths of Pandemonium: Plane in the Astral Sea
Infinite Layers of the Abyss: Crevasse in the center of the Elemental Vortex
Tarterian Depths of Carceri: Unknown
Gray Waste of Hades: Unknown (possibly merged with Shadowfell)
Bleak Eternity of Gehenna: Unknown
Nine Hells of Baator: Plane in the Astral Sea
Infernal Battlefield of Acheron: Plane in the Astral Sea
Clockwork Nirvana of Mechanus: Unknown
Peaceable Kingdoms of Arcadia: Unknown
Seven Mounting Heavens of Celestia: Plane in the Astral Sea
Twin Paradises of Bytopia: Unknown
Blessed Fields of Elysium: Unknown
Wilderness of the Beastlands: Merged with Feywild
Olympian Glades of Arborea: Unknown, possibly merged with Feywild (Arvandor mentioned)
Concordant Domain of the Outlands: Unknown, perhaps gone.
Elemental Plane of Fire: Merged into Elemental Vortex
Elemental Plane of Earth: Merged into Elemental Vortex
Elemental Plane of Air: Merged into Elemental Vortex
Elemental Plane of Water: Merged into Elemental Vortex
Positive Energy Plane: Unknown, possibly merged with Feywild
Negative Energy Plane: Merged with Shadowfell
Astral Plane: Renamed Astral Sea
Ethereal Plane:Merged with Shadowfell
Plane of Shadow: Merged with Shadowfell

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Seven months before 4e, and I'm stealing the hell out of that idea.

Thank you. I'm here every Wednesday night, and don't forget to tip your moderator.

 

[Chocobot]

Sounds fitting. Or put it back, where Lovecraft put it - in the Outer Space of the Material, not accessible by planar travel, but coming to the Material to infest other planes - in fact, the Material would be the Far Realm, except for the world of the PCs, a sole bastion of sanity.

I think a default setting which includes outer space is a bad idea. That might fit some fantasy games, but definitely not all. It's the same reason psionics aren't in the core rules, and probably never will be again: lots of people don't want sci-fi elements mixed in with their fantasy. Also, I strongly suspect that's why the astral plane is now a sea - it was too much like outer space.

 

[Rechan]

It's the same reason psionics aren't in the core rules, and probably never will be again: lots of people don't want sci-fi elements mixed in with their fantasy.

And a lot of psionics fans are annoyed for that very reason: They don't like sci-fi in their fantasy either.

I for one don't like the sci-fi flavor that has been put on 3e psionics.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

I wonder whether they will have allowances for a 'far realm' sort of place in this cosmology?

It doesn't sound as if it would be a particularly natural fit for a domain in the astral sea (because that would kinda make it a 'near realm', no?)

But then where *would* it go? Maybe at the far edges of the astral sea?

I think the far realm is the only one of the standard cosmological features that I'd be loathe to give up...

I always thought that part of the Far Realm's shtick is that it isn't anywhere in the standard cosmology, but somehow you can go there, open portals to it, etc. It shouldn't exist, but somehow it does. With that assumption, I don't really see too much trouble with putting it nowhere in the new cosmology too.

 

[Reaper Steve]

Also, I strongly suspect that's why the astral plane is now a sea - it was too much like outer space.

I don't see anything about 'Astral Sea' that makes it a literal 'sea,' with dominions bobbing along in it. I think the Astral Sea is still the vast openness that was the Astral Plane...but they didn't want to use the term 'plane' and most definitely wanted to avoid making it sound like outer space. I think a sea is the closest thing that someone from the material world can compare it to. I fully expect to see Illithid Nautiloids and Juggernaughts floating about.

 

[3catcircus]

Meh...

It just seems too contrived *just* to support the ability to conduct planar adventures at lower levels.

If it floats your boat, fine, but I prefer the 1e Manual of the Planes approach where the further you got from your home plane, the more difficult it was to survive, let alone thrive, and where planar travel was the province of the truly powerful.

I mean, they are going out of their way with the "points of light" to make you and your neighbors 10 miles away more isolated, yet they are making other planes of existence more accessible?