Design and Developments: Dirt, Rocks and 10' halls

[frankthedm]

Can you explain this for us unfamiliar with Iron Heroes?

Alterable terrain players and their foes are encouraged to take advantage of.

A room with a crumbling roof is dotted with small pillars. If one is destroyed {hardness 5, HP 10] adjacent squares suffer a light cave in [xd6 damage from falling rocks] If 4 adjacent pillars are destroyed, a 20’ radius suffers a full cave in.

 

[Mouseferatu]

I think the dev team's ability to write concise and clear rules/instructions needs a bit of work:

If any creature enters a doomspore's square (or uses a standard action to kick or poke at it, if within reach), a doomspore releases a cloud of spores that provides concealment to all creatures within its own and adjacent squares. Furthermore, a bloodied creature caught in the cloud is subject to a Fortitude attack (+10, 1d10 poison) at the beginning of its turn or when it moves into the affected area. In addition, a target hit by a doomspore is weakened and takes ongoing poison 5 (save ends both conditions (Save?); creatures with immunity to or resist poison 5 are immune to the weakened condition also). Isn't that implicit?

This cloud and its effects persist for the remainder of the encounter (or for 5 minutes). Once the cloud settles, the doomspore can't produce another for 24 hours.

Or, it's just possible that everything you think is unclear makes perfect sense in the context of the rules as a whole...

 

[Rechan]

Aah.

I'm familiar with that - I played Exalted. Though basically the "zone" mechanic was just "Here, you can do stunts to get one, two, or three extra dice to roll depending on what you do and how well you describe it" to facilitate creativity.

However, we've had some evidence of this before. Wyatt mentioned in the monster podcast about a monster that could create a frozen patch of ground as an effect. But it couldn't create another unless it walked over to the frozen patch, "sucked it up" and spat it out somewhere else.

 

[JohnSnow]

Aah.

I'm familiar with that - I played Exalted. Though basically the "zone" mechanic was just "Here, you can do stunts to get one, two, or three extra dice to roll depending on what you do and how well you describe it" to facilitate creativity.

However, we've had some evidence of this before. Wyatt mentioned in the monster podcast about a monster that could create a frozen patch of ground as an effect. But it couldn't create another unless it walked over to the frozen patch, "sucked it up" and spat it out somewhere else.

*SMILE*

Iron Heroes has stunts AND zones. The distinction can be a little vague, but at the base, stunts are created by the player and zones are created by the DM. The adjudication is pretty similar, and in a narrative after the fact, it's pretty much impossible to tell whether something was a player-created stunt or a DM-created zone.

Zones are standard enough that a DM can create lots, but he's unlikely to detail every single feature of a battlefield as a zone. Stunts come into play when a player tries to make use of the parts of the battlefield that the DM hasn't thought to stat out as a zone. That's because it's easier to adjudicate a stunt on the fly than it is to constantly make up new zones.

 

[Rechan]

Iron Heroes has stunts AND zones. The distinction can be a little vague, but at the base, stunts are created by the player and zones are created by the DM. The adjudication is pretty similar, and in a narrative after the fact, it's pretty much impossible to tell whether something was a player-created stunt or a DM-created zone.

Zones are standard enough that a DM can create lots, but he's unlikely to detail every single feature of a battlefield as a zone. Stunts come into play when a player tries to make use of the parts of the battlefield that the DM hasn't thought to stat out as a zone. That's because it's easier to adjudicate a stunt on the fly than it is to constantly make up new zones.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

It's interesting that the stunts and zones have rules mechanics. Though if it's a PC doing a stunt off the fly, the DM has to pull the rules effect out of his butt.

 

[JohnSnow]

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

It's interesting that the stunts and zones have rules mechanics. Though if it's a PC doing a stunt off the fly, the DM has to pull the rules effect out of his butt.

Absolutely. I'll post the stats of a few examples of zones from Mastering Iron Heroes.

Storm-Tossed Ship (Condition Zone): Balance DC 15; Fall prone in current square/no effect.

Falling Rocks (Condition Zone): Base attack +9; 2d6 points of damage.

Cave-In (Triggered Event Zone): Triggered when a character steps on a pressure plate in the cave floor; Reflex save DC 16; on a failed save, the victim takes 3d6 points of damage from falling rocks.

Rolling Boulder (Nonreusable Action Zone): With a Strength check as a full-round action, you can send a boulder rolling down a slope to smash into your enemies. The Difficulty Class and the damage this boulder inflicts depend on its size. Creatures suffer half damage from the stone if they make Reflex saves.

Those can be hard to whip up on the spur of the moment. By contrast, stunt mechanics are much simpler, basically granting a benefit of some sort (move, offensive, or defensive) for making use of a skill of some kind.

 

[Cadfan]

WTF? So much for speeding up combat. That's not terrain, that's turning a 5 foot step into a Greek Epic.

I don't think the point is to fill every square on the battlefield with these creatures. Its something you meet once in a while.

And what's this about no pits? Don't you think there might be a problem with the DM just not including pits? How about this one...

I'd rather play a game where you can dig a pit and push someone in, than a game where you can dig a pit and wish upon a star that someday in the far future some game designer might design a game mechanic that lets you push someone in. Even if I occasionally get pushed into a pit.

If the players can dig a pit deep enough to kill and/or trap an entire camp of orcs without the orcs just climbing out, then lure the orcs to the pit, then push the orcs into the pit, they deserve the win.

 

[Sir Brennen]

Absolutely. I'll post the stats of a few examples of zones from Mastering Iron Heroes.

Storm-Tossed Ship (Condition Zone): Balance DC 15; Fall prone in current square/no effect.

Falling Rocks (Condition Zone): Base attack +9; 2d6 points of damage.

Cave-In (Triggered Event Zone): Triggered when a character steps on a pressure plate in the cave floor; Reflex save DC 16; on a failed save, the victim takes 3d6 points of damage from falling rocks.

Rolling Boulder (Nonreusable Action Zone): With a Strength check as a full-round action, you can send a boulder rolling down a slope to smash into your enemies. The Difficulty Class and the damage this boulder inflicts depend on its size. Creatures suffer half damage from the stone if they make Reflex saves.

Those can be hard to whip up on the spur of the moment. By contrast, stunt mechanics are much simpler, basically granting a benefit of some sort (move, offensive, or defensive) for making use of a skill of some kind.

Aren't those more like traps and hazards than full blown zones? I played in a one-shot IH game at a local game store event, and one of the more memorable zones was a battle among ruins, with certain crumbling wall sections marked on the battlemat. Players could climb and run along the tops of them (with appropriate skill checks) but more importantly, you could push a wall section over onto an enemy. I think that's a better example where zones and stunts kinda blur the line.

 

[Sir Brennen]

And what's this about no pits? Don't you think there might be a problem with the DM just not including pits? How about this one...

[...]

We go from the 15-minute workday to up at the crack of dawn digging trenches. Way to go, 4th edition.

Where does it say anything about "no pits"? It says be careful of them, and is offering this as advice to the DM. I also think there will be plenty of far more interesting things to put onto the battlemat than 10' pits in the new edition anyway.

As an aside, illusionary cover over a pit has been a staple of D&D since first edition, so this is nothing new.

 

[Gundark]

Actual game mechanics....nice.

There is more and more of a Iron Heroes influence in 4e...nice