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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celtavian" data-source="post: 6841977" data-attributes="member: 5834">I don't believe an absent-minded character would survive combat for long save in funny stories. I don't run funny stories. Just not my cup of tea. As I stated and I'm quite sure of it, humans read verbal cues and detect information naturally in real life. To presume adventurers would have to tell you they are looking for danger is something I don't even consider. I always consider Deception an opposed role against Passive Insight. No matter how you argue it, I know I am absolutely right about how it works in real life. People that aren't aware generally end up dead or in bad situations in real life, meaning they don't survive long. That is why the human animal has developed these instincts when in the wild because they are necessary for survival.I think this is fundamental difference in how we view the game that has come up quite often in our discussions. I tend to apply real life biological ideas to my game world. I tend to think out what it takes to survive in such a world. I run it that philosophy in mind assuming adventurers are alpha humans as in the most capable of the humanoid breeds going against often the most capable of the monster breeds they fight. Waiting for a player to say this every time is a ridiculous expectation. Adventurers, especially at high level, should be expected to be doing this. If there isn't a complex situation requiring very careful observation, they should detect it. A slaad with no Deception skill trying to pose as human little girl should not be hard to detect the problem given that creature would likely have very little experience doing so.You are correct. Just like any soldier or other combatant would pump them. Just like heroes and superheroes almost always have high insight and perception picking up on all types of things before common people. Insight and Perception are part of the job same as an accountant needing to know how to see problems with numbers or a scientist attempting to see problems in an experiment. No adventurer would make it to high level if he wasn't the sort always on the lookout for danger.Once again, I'm applying the survival of the fittest biological principle. I don't expect my players to have to state they are on the lookout for danger. I expect them to be on the lookout when walking down street in their peaceful home village, at a party, at their dinner at home, in their bedroom. Adventurers wander into dark places to face off against the most heinous creatures in a fantasy world. It requires a certain level of paranoia to do this effectively for a long time and survive. As far as meaningful decisions go, not sure why you think they wouldn't have to make one. When I decide to deceive them or ambush them, I use enemies that can do the job as in very high deception or perception requiring an active check. This strange assumption that the players don't have to make checks is odd. Easy stuff shouldn't fool them. Hard stuff should. Make it hard when you want them to make meaningful suggestions. Not softball checks like a slaad with no Deception skill trying to deceive them. There are also rules for Passive Perception reduction like fast travel or shadowy circumstances. Plenty of ways to make decisions meaningful without making players state obvious actions you as a DM should be assuming they take.We can agree to disagree on this matter. You'll never change my mind and I'll never change yours. I absolutely believe that any adventurer capable of surviving to high level should always have passive detection skills active. I doubt in my campaigns any party that did not invest heavily in Insight, Investigation, and Perception would not survive long since I use ambushes quite a lot. My players always have a few high Perception and Insight skill characters in the group. Investigation not quite as much given it's one of those skills that is almost interchangeable with Perception. Good discussion. I've known for a while you don't apply biological principles to your world and monster design like I do.</blockquote>

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