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Design Debate: 13th-level PCs vs. 6- to 8-Encounter Adventuring Day
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<blockquote data-quote="Flamestrike" data-source="post: 6849520" data-attributes="member: 6788736"><p>No sh*t. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>What a ridiculous assertion. The MM actively encourages DMs to tweak monsters. The DMG expressly encourages the DM to create unique encounter environments. Heck, the last few adventure paths released do both.</p><p></p><p>Adventure prep script:</p><p></p><p>Frank: Hey Matt, what you up to?</p><p>Matt: Designing a cool adventure for the weekend for my group. Its got all kinds of cool references to OSR modules a neat twist on some old faves</p><p>Frank: Hang on is Celtivan in that group?</p><p>Matt: Yeah mate, why?</p><p>Frank: Have you included any unique environmental conditions, or things not expressly covered by the rules? Have you made any changes to monsters, that might challenge the players or detract from the way they are statted out in the MM? </p><p>Matt: Yeah but...</p><p>Frank: For the love of God <em>dont</em>. He flat out refuses to play in any game with rulings not rules. He wont accept them and will argue about something as inane as a unique planar trait altering light conditions to impose disadvantge to ranged attacks for literally hours. </p><p>Matt: What if I insert a unique magic item that isnt in the book?</p><p>Frank: Oh he's totally cool with that. Rulings are fine if they help him.</p><p>Matt: Huh?</p><p>Frank: Yeah man. And he'll flat out refuse to engage in your plot hook.</p><p>Matt; No way, this hook is perfect.</p><p>Frank: He only ever creates amoral characters who dont care if the world burns. No friends, family, or any interest in the world at all. This includes being wealthy or being in positions of power, because according to him, 'wealth means nothing in 5E'. This is intentional so he cant get 'roped into adventures by the DM'</p><p>Matt: <em>Blinks</em>.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I dont care. This is an adventure that has a few unique challenges attached. Like how vampires can walk around in sunlight in Barovia and the PCs cant leave 'because fog' (and spells function differently). Or the effects of faezeres and Demon madness in the Underdark adventure before it. Or whatever. Youre the only person who feels the need to have a sook about it. Constantly. Even after I ruled that it wont apply to the adventure because I neglected to put it in the first post.</p><p></p><p>I mean WTF? If you did this at my table, I'd have to restrain a few of my players from physically turfing you out the door.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Whats happening here has nothing to do with your characters and their abilities, optimisation or min-maxing, or 6-8 encounters. My home party are extremely optimised. Our 3.5 party featured a Ruby knight vindicator [archivist], an Incantatrix and CoDzilla. Optimization is pointless to an extent, as the DM can always optimize more - all it really does is create more work for everyone, and bar less experienced players from the game. No, this has everything to do with <em>you </em>as a player. Jubilai wasnt being an argumentative fool and questioning every single ruling, or sooking about encounter conditions, or redrawing encounters, or whining about monster tactics, <em>you </em>were. Maybe you tolerate this in your home games when you DM. I certainly dont.</p><p></p><p>You managed to alienate me totally as a DM and a fellow player of the game. That this still seems to be lost on you truly worries me.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Flamestrike, post: 6849520, member: 6788736"] No sh*t. What a ridiculous assertion. The MM actively encourages DMs to tweak monsters. The DMG expressly encourages the DM to create unique encounter environments. Heck, the last few adventure paths released do both. Adventure prep script: Frank: Hey Matt, what you up to? Matt: Designing a cool adventure for the weekend for my group. Its got all kinds of cool references to OSR modules a neat twist on some old faves Frank: Hang on is Celtivan in that group? Matt: Yeah mate, why? Frank: Have you included any unique environmental conditions, or things not expressly covered by the rules? Have you made any changes to monsters, that might challenge the players or detract from the way they are statted out in the MM? Matt: Yeah but... Frank: For the love of God [I]dont[/I]. He flat out refuses to play in any game with rulings not rules. He wont accept them and will argue about something as inane as a unique planar trait altering light conditions to impose disadvantge to ranged attacks for literally hours. Matt: What if I insert a unique magic item that isnt in the book? Frank: Oh he's totally cool with that. Rulings are fine if they help him. Matt: Huh? Frank: Yeah man. And he'll flat out refuse to engage in your plot hook. Matt; No way, this hook is perfect. Frank: He only ever creates amoral characters who dont care if the world burns. No friends, family, or any interest in the world at all. This includes being wealthy or being in positions of power, because according to him, 'wealth means nothing in 5E'. This is intentional so he cant get 'roped into adventures by the DM' Matt: [I]Blinks[/I]. I dont care. This is an adventure that has a few unique challenges attached. Like how vampires can walk around in sunlight in Barovia and the PCs cant leave 'because fog' (and spells function differently). Or the effects of faezeres and Demon madness in the Underdark adventure before it. Or whatever. Youre the only person who feels the need to have a sook about it. Constantly. Even after I ruled that it wont apply to the adventure because I neglected to put it in the first post. I mean WTF? If you did this at my table, I'd have to restrain a few of my players from physically turfing you out the door. Whats happening here has nothing to do with your characters and their abilities, optimisation or min-maxing, or 6-8 encounters. My home party are extremely optimised. Our 3.5 party featured a Ruby knight vindicator [archivist], an Incantatrix and CoDzilla. Optimization is pointless to an extent, as the DM can always optimize more - all it really does is create more work for everyone, and bar less experienced players from the game. No, this has everything to do with [I]you [/I]as a player. Jubilai wasnt being an argumentative fool and questioning every single ruling, or sooking about encounter conditions, or redrawing encounters, or whining about monster tactics, [I]you [/I]were. Maybe you tolerate this in your home games when you DM. I certainly dont. You managed to alienate me totally as a DM and a fellow player of the game. That this still seems to be lost on you truly worries me. [/QUOTE]
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Design Debate: 13th-level PCs vs. 6- to 8-Encounter Adventuring Day
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