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Design Debate: 13th-level PCs vs. 6- to 8-Encounter Adventuring Day
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<blockquote data-quote="FormerlyHemlock" data-source="post: 6859306" data-attributes="member: 6787650"><p>Adding spells is a fantastic (and very traditional) way to fix the issue. In 2nd edition, pretty much every kind of Baatezu or Tanar'ri above the rank of Lemure/Dretch was a spellcaster. IIRC mid-level demons had cool stuff like Animate Dead at-will, which means even a mid-level demon could be a real handful for a mid-level party if it found the right situation.</p><p></p><p>In 5E, giving a dragon even just the spells of a mid-level dragon sorcerer turns it into a terrifying threat. Consider just the impact of Darkness + Shield spell on a chassis that already has good AC, flight, and blindsight. Access to bonus-action spells like Quickened Hold Person III and Misty Step improves the action economy. Counterspell has a chance of nullifying the party's go-to favorite spells like Wall of Force.</p><p></p><p>The biggest "downside" to such modifications is that the DM has to run a creature now which is approximately as complex as a PC and requires about as much attention to play well, and which is likely to take more than eighteen seconds' of effort for the PCs to overcome. If that's exactly the experience you're looking for, it's not a downside at all.</p><p></p><p>One more comment: for another look at how much spellcasting enhances a monster, look at the Couatl in the MM. It's nominally CR 4 but because of all its spellcasting and special abilities it is actually much, much tougher than that.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FormerlyHemlock, post: 6859306, member: 6787650"] Adding spells is a fantastic (and very traditional) way to fix the issue. In 2nd edition, pretty much every kind of Baatezu or Tanar'ri above the rank of Lemure/Dretch was a spellcaster. IIRC mid-level demons had cool stuff like Animate Dead at-will, which means even a mid-level demon could be a real handful for a mid-level party if it found the right situation. In 5E, giving a dragon even just the spells of a mid-level dragon sorcerer turns it into a terrifying threat. Consider just the impact of Darkness + Shield spell on a chassis that already has good AC, flight, and blindsight. Access to bonus-action spells like Quickened Hold Person III and Misty Step improves the action economy. Counterspell has a chance of nullifying the party's go-to favorite spells like Wall of Force. The biggest "downside" to such modifications is that the DM has to run a creature now which is approximately as complex as a PC and requires about as much attention to play well, and which is likely to take more than eighteen seconds' of effort for the PCs to overcome. If that's exactly the experience you're looking for, it's not a downside at all. One more comment: for another look at how much spellcasting enhances a monster, look at the Couatl in the MM. It's nominally CR 4 but because of all its spellcasting and special abilities it is actually much, much tougher than that. [/QUOTE]
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Community
General Tabletop Discussion
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Design Debate: 13th-level PCs vs. 6- to 8-Encounter Adventuring Day
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