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Message: <blockquote data-quote="OB1" data-source="post: 6859752" data-attributes="member: 6796241">So fight creatures 10 levels over the party, or 15 or 20. The baseline is there to challenge average players who have average characters. If the baseline were at the level you are asking for, new and casual players wouldn't stand a chance. Above average players playing above average characters with above average tactics need an above average dm or above average monsters. It's not bad design to expect expert players to have to change the baseline assumptions. They are the players who have shown that they can do so!  New and casual players wouldn't have the skills needed ease a too difficult system. That said, I would love to see the Advanced Players Handbook they are hinting at take this head on and be designed to give players like yourself the challenge you seek as the baseline and be coupled with an Advanced Monster Manual to make it easier for the DM to do do.</blockquote>