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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lord Twig" data-source="post: 6862393" data-attributes="member: 31754">Can't reply to this all. Too much going on today, but a couple things jumped out.If the players won't do it, the NPC don't have to do it either. This was poor tactics by a master tactician.You already admitted a mistake here. Happens to the best of us. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Still, those are some high level spells getting tossed out. Basically they went nova because they had no fear that they would need those spells later. As a DM your job is to make them worry.And now we get to the heart of the problem. You basically just give the party the win here. It's great that they notice things, but you are telling me that they can see an incorporeal (completely silent) creature of darkness, in darkness (basically invisible), before they themselves can be spotted? How fast are they moving to be able to stealth all day long (in full plate no less) so well that they can't be spotted by incorporeal shadow creatures (in complete darkness) while they can see the shadow demons.Okay, sure. Let's go ahead and give them that (I wouldn't, but whatever).There are 6 shadow demons. Are they all grouped together? Why? How about putting them in a grid so they are all 120' apart? Each one can see two others. Only one shadow demon needs to get away to warn the Marilith. It is so trivially easy to allow a lone shadow demon to get away.The one that got away destroys the parties advantage completely. They have no idea that there is anything more than shadow demons out there. They have no idea that they missed one.Once they are alerted the demons just need to wait at a bend in the tunnel that puts the party less than a full move away. Or wait till they are crossing a chasm, or a bridge, or going up a cliff, or anything other than a flat featureless plane.Again, they can cast "a few shield spells because they have no fear that they will need them again for the rest of the day.Using a couple spell slots in one round, again, because why not? Not going to need them again today!Putting aside the fact that they should never have been allowed to ambush the shadow demons, you forgot to include all the shield spells cast and the ones sacrificed for smites.But you know what? Ultimately you want your players to have fun. If they like flat featureless planes for combat and always getting the drop on their enemies, then changing the enemies to add abilities is what you are going to have to do.Allow the Marilith to parry ranged attacks. Give her the teleport as bonus action. Double her hit points. Give her (and a bunch of other demons) the ability to cast Cloud Kill (they are all immune to poison). Maybe some wall spells to shape the battle field.If that is what you and your players like to do, go ahead!Oh, one more thing. You keep claiming that your players are awesome and there is no stopping them. This implies that everyone else is not-so-awesome and that their tactics are inferior. That is why people keep popping up to tell you you are wrong. Because there definitely are ways of stopping them, you just don't want to use them (like breaking a bow).Instead maybe just say that you like to let your players be the toughest things around and let them beat on creatures far above there level. That seems to be what they like, and if they are having fun, then that's the most important thing. You will even get suggestions on ways to let them keep beating on things.</blockquote>

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