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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Design Debate: 13th-level PCs vs. 6- to 8-Encounter Adventuring Day
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<blockquote data-quote="matskralc" data-source="post: 6864332" data-attributes="member: 6802405"><p>Why are you using their passive Perceptions? What are all 15 demons doing that they're too busy to be making Perception rolls to notice something? Wasn't there a demon scouting party? Shouldn't the demons be aware that there are adventurers looking for them? Why aren't the demons actively looking for the adventurers?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You had 15 demons, many of whom could fly. Why didn't they flank the PCs or cut off their retreat? Why didn't they surround the PCs? Why didn't they grapple them?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Because those are optional rules not contemplated by the base encounter guidelines. And neither is your allowance of Unearthed Arcana rules or house rules like an extra concentration slot for buff spells. Your lack of appreciation for the extra power that you are allowing your PCs to have is telling. Also not contemplated: monster tactics that aren't just suboptimal, but are nearly suicidal.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That would be rude.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No, <em>you're</em> telling us it's not enough to challenge them. We're taking your word for that and trying to try to tell you why that might be the case.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Because you're allowing your PCs extra power that isn't contemplated by the encounter guidelines and then running your monsters with poor tactics.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Because some people enjoy those.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You're telling us it's not enough to challenge them. We're taking your word for that and trying to try to tell you why that might be the case.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No, you don't. Just don't run your monsters like they all have death wishes and don't hand out house rules that allow PCs to overpower themselves.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well of course the PCs will win more often. The object of the game (at least for the people that I play with) isn't for one side, the PCs or the DM, to win. I haven't failed if I don't TPK my party. I've failed if I or my party is bored because the party is steamrolling everything. Fortunately, this is not a problem that I have.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't know. WotC module designers aren't the same people as the game designers. WotC module designers are the gateway through which most people will play their first games. WotC's incentive is for people to feel like they win and do cool stuff so that they come back and hand WotC more money. That's why LMoP is such a treasure fest, for example. If those games work for people, that's great. And if those games work for people, WotC will keep putting them out there.</p><p></p><p>Don't act like every WotC module is like that, though. Even Expeditions modules I've run enough of to know that's not the case. I cut encounters out of those not to make the adventuring day easier but because the store isn't going to stay open all night for us.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="matskralc, post: 6864332, member: 6802405"] Why are you using their passive Perceptions? What are all 15 demons doing that they're too busy to be making Perception rolls to notice something? Wasn't there a demon scouting party? Shouldn't the demons be aware that there are adventurers looking for them? Why aren't the demons actively looking for the adventurers? You had 15 demons, many of whom could fly. Why didn't they flank the PCs or cut off their retreat? Why didn't they surround the PCs? Why didn't they grapple them? Because those are optional rules not contemplated by the base encounter guidelines. And neither is your allowance of Unearthed Arcana rules or house rules like an extra concentration slot for buff spells. Your lack of appreciation for the extra power that you are allowing your PCs to have is telling. Also not contemplated: monster tactics that aren't just suboptimal, but are nearly suicidal. That would be rude. No, [i]you're[/I] telling us it's not enough to challenge them. We're taking your word for that and trying to try to tell you why that might be the case. Because you're allowing your PCs extra power that isn't contemplated by the encounter guidelines and then running your monsters with poor tactics. Because some people enjoy those. You're telling us it's not enough to challenge them. We're taking your word for that and trying to try to tell you why that might be the case. No, you don't. Just don't run your monsters like they all have death wishes and don't hand out house rules that allow PCs to overpower themselves. Well of course the PCs will win more often. The object of the game (at least for the people that I play with) isn't for one side, the PCs or the DM, to win. I haven't failed if I don't TPK my party. I've failed if I or my party is bored because the party is steamrolling everything. Fortunately, this is not a problem that I have. I don't know. WotC module designers aren't the same people as the game designers. WotC module designers are the gateway through which most people will play their first games. WotC's incentive is for people to feel like they win and do cool stuff so that they come back and hand WotC more money. That's why LMoP is such a treasure fest, for example. If those games work for people, that's great. And if those games work for people, WotC will keep putting them out there. Don't act like every WotC module is like that, though. Even Expeditions modules I've run enough of to know that's not the case. I cut encounters out of those not to make the adventuring day easier but because the store isn't going to stay open all night for us. [/QUOTE]
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Design Debate: 13th-level PCs vs. 6- to 8-Encounter Adventuring Day
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