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Message: <blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 6866250" data-attributes="member: 12731">Exactly. You don't need to be a super genius to use the tools given to monsters to create an incredibly frustrating experience for the players, and high level spells enable some very "unfair" tactics. But I suspect you (those of you; not Azure) only mention those to shoot down the arguments "the monsters are too weak". What you don't get is:We want monsters that doesn't have to use these tactics. We want monsters that come buff out of the box.Any 100 hp monster simply cannot and should not be given a high CR. Period.If it hides behind lots of muscle, that's one thing, but that's the Encounter CR, not the monster CR.If the stat block itself says "the Lich always sends out ten squads of halfling-disguised azers before the fight, and always fights behind a hundred specters" then and only then would a sky high CR be warranted, despite the low hp.You the DM should not have to work extra just to bring the monster up to the listed CR. The listed CR applies to a bog-standard out-of-the-box randomly-ecountered no-previous-DM-prep monster. (The real takeway here is to ditch CRs altogether, but that's another discussion)The point is: a designer is told a CR 15 monster is supposed to challenge a level 15 party. Giving that monster just north of a hundred hit points is then an objective error. It tells us that designer does not know his own game. It means he has no actual play experience, possibly excepting parties consisting of ten-year old girls playing elven princesses running away from home. That's a fundamental flaw, since any balancing needs to take the extremes into account. Not necessarily Celtavian levels of extremes, but certainly we should be able to count on the basic realization "you know Bob, a hundred hit points won't even last one round against five Regular-but-L15 Joes; you sure you're done with this monster?".</blockquote>

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