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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Flamestrike" data-source="post: 6869409" data-attributes="member: 6788736">Pass without trace grants its benefit due to (per the spell) 'shadows and magical silence'. I wouldnt let it work with a creature with Blindisight that wasnt relying on sight or hearing to percieve something (say with blindsight - with weirdly in 5E also covers other senses like smell and sonar - or tremorsense). In my mind I had the dragon coiled up behind the pyramid in the shadows, peering into the room. The pyramid is in back half of chamber.Kind of like this:[ATTACH]76084[/ATTACH]But with more of it hidden. 3/4 cover. I was pretty specific it 'surveys the room.' Im not going to get into this with you, but 'Stealth' and 'Hiding' are intentionally DM dependent in 5E. That we can agree on at least I hope. I rule that you cannot 'hide' when under direct observation (as per the 5E Errata). If a creature is looking down a coriddor, you can not use stealth to approach it (well... you can, but it sees you automatically). If it's looking the other way, its fair game.In this case the dragon relies on its blindisight (magical dragon radar and sense of smell) to scan the area 60' in front of it. It also has dsrkvision out to 120' (so can see this far) and can (obviously) hear much further. Watch me. I have no problem with a creature peering over cover and remaining 'hidden', particularly when its comprised of shadows, in a demiplane comprised of magical shadows. That makes perfect sense to me, and I would have no problem with a creature poking its head over cover and remaining hidden.Rule it however you want in your game however. But dont tell me what a DM can or cannot rule.That was the intent of the encounter by the way. It was designed around this.Again; the dragon is already looking and listening. No-one in the party has a visual range of above 120' (the same as the dragons) and they lose the benefit of pass without trace (and can no longer hide anyway) once they reach 60' thanks to blindsight removing anything they can hide 'in'. You cant hide in dhadows when the creature sees through the shadows just fine, and being quiet doesnt help you one iota against scent and when the creature is looking right at you.It is possible that the party could reach 120' away and (using pass without trace) the dragon fails to notice all PCs (they get the benefit of Pass without trace at this point, and get advantage to stealth thanks to the gloom) by flubbing its perception check (+12 from memory). Of cvourse, if it detects just the one PC, then its game on. If it fails to detect a single PC, then only one PC has to crack the dragons stealth score result with a perception check of their own at this point (around 26 with advantage and expertise in stealth) and warn the others - so its possible in this instance they might detect the dragon at 120' and it not notice them in return.</blockquote>

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