Designers: Say Yes to Bards! Save the Class

[satori01]

I keep hearing the Bard Class is on the bubble. It would be a bad mistake to remove the class.
Many people, myself obviously included love the class. I am not overly fond of the 3.5 class but the idea of magical/musical adventurer seeker of lore is an appealing one.

Every player I have ever seen play a Bard, has loved their character. Not for the power, because lets face it, unless you go back to 2E, the 3.5 Bard does not have it in spades. No the players love it for the fact that Bard is one of those classes where people lose some of their inhibitions and let it all hang out.

From making spontaneous free form songs when they use bardic music, to playing a half-orc viking like skald based of Egil of the Icelandic sagas, (whom incidentaly once brought the house down by when forced to sing once <this bard was not a singer> proceded to do their homage to Young Frankenstein...ala "putting on the ritz").

Humorous memories are one of the great currencies of D&D, and few classes bring out the humor, and often times unorthodoxly brilliant actions that you talk about for years.

Designers please keep the class. Others that feel that the class should be included in 4E...please post in this thread ...petition style, but feel free to post your fond memories.

Remember getting rid of Bards makes baby Elvis cry!

 

[Mouseferatu]

Relax. According to Andy Collins at the "Future of D&D" seminar at GenCon, every class that's in the 3.5 PHB will appear in 4E eventually. So even if it's not in the 4E PHB, you can expect to see it at some point.

 

[psionotic]

Bards are my favorite class, too. They're also as dead as Thac0 happy gnomes, methinks.

I have no direct evidence of this, but circumstantially the case is starting to mount.

My guess? In the 4e PHB2 (2009?) we'll see a Bard core class with lots of skills and some kind of musical magic system of their own (but modular with everything else). What I would *not* like to see is an implementation like the one that exists now, where they are basically a rogue/sorcerer multiclass, with some of the abilities of each, but half the power and little of the style...

 

[FireLance]

There is speculation that there will be some kind of commander base class in 4e, and it is possible that the bard will be folded into that class.

 

[satori01]

Relax. According to Andy Collins at the "Future of D&D" seminar at GenCon, every class that's in the 3.5 PHB will appear in 4E eventually. So even if it's not in the 4E PHB, you can expect to see it at some point.

Oddly I do not find that very comforting. Clearly plans can change, and while WOTC might have every intention in the world of Eventually re-releasing the Bard, no one can say that comments made at the "future of D&D" constitutes a binding compact between designer & gamer.

The Bard class has appeared in the PHB since 1e. I would find it a shame for it to become in essence a non core class, that might be released in some other book than the one every player will buy.

 

[mhensley]

What evidence has there been that the Bard class will be cut from the phb?

 

[Snapdragyn]

Don't do away with the bard in favor of multiclass warlord/rogue! Don't let 4e be the edition that kills Elan & helps Nale take his stuff!

I, too, hope for the bard in the PHB. PHB2? To me that feels like suggesting that they just hold off the MM for a year too -- after all, it's no big deal since we'll get around to combat eventually.

Where I see a space for the bard in the PHB is as the jack-of-all-trades -- but one that actually works this time. They've said they're fixing multiclassing, so they already have some ideas of how to keep power level up while allowing greater diversity of options. I think that they could use this experience in crafting a workable hybrid class.

The way that encounters look to work now, with x/round, x/encounter, & x/day abilities for all classes, the primary resource becomes opportunity cost (i.e. does the wizard use this ability or that one), since most types of abilities will recharge after the encounter anyway, but you still only get 1 action/round. This opens up a great spot for the character who combines opportunities from different combat roles. A bard casts an illusion spell? It not only convinces the enemies that the battlefield is covered in debris & thus slows their movement (controller) but also boosts the morale of allies (leader). Or the bard executes a maneuver while singing a note which deals damage to one foe (striker) while also healing an adjacent ally (leader).

This is a different situation from a multiclass character, who has a greater diversity of choices than a single-class but still faces the same 'either or' choices per round -- for a bard built like this, it's a choice of 'which combination'. To balance the power of having each ability produce multiple effects, those effects can be weaker than ones produced by the other classes. At lowest levels, when the system won't deal with numbers <1, just having the choice between multiple role effects would be an advantage since other classes won't have multiclassed yet; by the time they do, the bard's abilities could start picking up their secondary effects.

One key point to make such a class desirable, of course, would be that the effects would need to be fully stackable; otherwise the minor buffs or damage which the bard could produce (even though they'd have the advantage of producing them simultaneously) would be outweighed by the stronger buffs of other classes. Having all bard effects based on luck would not only fit pretty well with the archetype, but also stack with the majority of spells as they exist in 3.x (can't predict for 4e, of course).

 

[The Souljourner]

Long live the Bard! I think the 3.5 Bard is the best bard yet.... just hope they continue to make it better and better.

-nate

 

[Wormwood]

Long live the Bard! I think the 3.5 Bard is the best bard yet.... just hope they continue to make it better and better.

I agree---but I'm also willing to wait for a supplement before we get a 4e bard.

I just don't see the class as a design priority.

 

[Korgoth]

If we're voting, I say out with the lovable scamps.

Scene: A party of dour adventurers prepares to trespass upon the Pits of Mordecore. They gather their gear and company.
"300' of rope?" - "Check"
"Pitons?" - "Check"
"Hammers?" - "Check"
"Holy Water?" - "Check"
"4 10' Poles?" - "Check"
"Holy man?" - "Check, my son."
"Wizard?" - "Check"
"Oh, Food and Water?" - "Check and double check"
"Fighting men?" - "HOOAH!"
"Weapons and Armor?" - "Check and double check"
"Musician?" - "..."
"..."
"..." - "*sigh* Check."

Scene: The party is at sea. Suddenly, the sea erupts as huge tentacles encircle the ship and begin smashing the crew. A great fearsome beak arises as the Kraken bears its maw and attempts to destroy the party, the ship and the crew.
DM: "What do you do?"
Fighter: "I draw my zweihander and slash the nearest tentacle!"
Cleric: "I call down a column of holy fire from the heavens upon this unnatural beast!"
Wizard: "I unleash a bolt of eldritch lightning straight into its terrible visage."
Rogue: "I throw a vessel of alchemist's fire straight into its beak."
Ranger: "I unleash a rain of arrows right into its protuberant eye."
Bard: "I sing!"
...
...
Monk: "I kick the bard in the groin and then attack the squid."