Designing a few good villains

[Lord Zardoz]

A good epic villain has to be at once powerful and mysterious. Some points to consider:

+ actions speak louder than words
+ moral ambiguity is good
+ Keep your villain a mystery for as long as possible
+ Villain must be a threat

I will agree with points 1, 3, and 4 as being useful. Point 2 is one I will nitpick on a bit.

Hannibal Lecter, the Joker, Jason Voorhees, and Emporer Palpatine do quite well with no moral ambiguity at all. Moral Ambiguity can be very effective, but it does not always fit. Noah Bennet (the horn rimmed glasses guy from Heroes) does quite well with Moral Ambiguity. But there is no moral ambiguity in Hannibal Lecter.

I think a better description of what you are describing is a Sympathetic Villain. Hannibal Lecter is an effective villain because he fills items 1, 3, and 4 of the above, and he is portrayed in a way that makes you want to like him. He is seductive, charismatic, and he is often motivated by a sense of poetic justice in his crimes. Also, he is just cool in alot of ways. However, I do not think there is much room for genuine moral ambiguity in his acts of murder and cannibalism. No sane and reasonable person would find his acts morally justifiable.

Also, there are some villain archtypes for which having a sympathetic villain would just not fit very well. Some of the best villains to ever be portrayed in fiction were not especially nuanced and subtle. The best example off the top of my head is the original Terminator.

It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead.

Not a sympathetic villain. Not at all a morally ambiguous villain. But undeniably one of the most effective movie villains ever. Not exactly an epic villain as written, but drop in the intelligence and resources of Skynet, and you have your epic villain.

END COMMUNICATION

 

[Tal Rasha]

Overall I agree with what you said, and I am tempted to think of my previous point of moral ambiguity as a subset of a sympathetic villain. So we have that recommendation.

I will say that I didn't like Hannibal Lecter as a villain that much. I was impressed the first time I saw the movies, but given that there are plenty of intelligent, charismatic, seductive people who are NOT psychotic killers, I found other types of villains more engrossing. I made the Magneto example because that is what first came to mind when I thought of someone who actually had a very good reason to be pissed off.

Offtopic aside. To the OP, would Jon Irenicus of Baldur's Gate II fame fit your fantasy setting? Big bad wizard with troubled past doing funky experiments on the PCs? Man was he ever fun to hate.

 

[wizard_in_motley]

A villain suggestion

Hi all,

After a minor hiatus and a rather short, but nonetheless very funny
experience as a Gothic Horror game DM,
it seems that I will soon return to more familiar realms again.

Funny in a good way? I've had them laughing to break the tension, then the zombies break down the door and the tension goes right back up again.

- For next spring, I want to prepare an epic fantasy game again, most likely for OD&D/RC D&D.

The setting is still undecided, though I think about Judges Guild's Known World (Wilderlands/Blackmoor).

Now my problem:

Every epic story begins with an epic villain. And I currently can think of none...

Can anyone help me out, please?

Yours,

Rafael

The most memorable villains are ones the PCs know in more than a 'he's the bad guy' way. I would suggest the game start with some sort of plague. Nothing big, but the PCs are supposed to help find the cure. Someone they know and are exposed to from the first adventure (maybe even a family member) has their spouse or child die because of the plague. After a while they start to blame the PCs for it, causing small problems for them. Then they decide the PCs are really the problem and must be dealt with.

My suggestion for a person is an older, motherly woman who's a mid-level priest of a local god. When she loses it she makes a pact with a dark god. When clerics go evil they get a LOT of nice toys to play with.