Designing a mega-dungeon - looking for ideas, products

[Filcher]

While we have you (Chris or Adrian), it's almost a year later since WR was released. If there was one thing you could change in your mega dungeon, what would it be?

 

[fba827]

While I know nothing about the product -- isn't Dungeon Delve (about to be released next month) supposed to be a massive dungeon that you could use for all levels as a giant dungeon with many levels, or in pieces as needed for your own plot?
(But I could be completely off )

 

[Rechan]

While I know nothing about the product -- isn't Dungeon Delve (about to be released next month) supposed to be a massive dungeon that you could use for all levels as a giant dungeon with many levels, or in pieces as needed for your own plot?
(But I could be completely off )

Dungeon Delve is basically 30 mini-dungeons. Think a 2-5 page adventure with the stats and maps.

 

[grodog]

Here's a general run-down of megadungeon products, in no particular order, that I'm aware of, with my quick impressions thereof:

- Caverns of Thracia - the best - buy it: a ruined city in a jungle with levels below; easily the best megadungeon out there if you like old school dungeon delving with complex maps and hidden sublevels and such; only complaint is that it's a bit too small to be a true megadungeon unless you expand it (much like NG's Tomb of Abysthor, the perfect d20 equivalent to CoT [excepting the d20 conversion of CoT, of course!])

- Rappan Athuk: I'm not too keen on RA as as stand-alone megadungeon, it's a bit too small for my taste and it's tightly focused themes of undead and Orcus make it a bit harder, but I'm happy to mine it for encounters and ideas; the free map downloads on the NG site by Chris Boll are the best RA maps published, and it's a shame that they weren't used in the RA:Reloaded boxed set (though you can download them, of course, if you have the original RA books' passwords too)

- WGR1 Greyhawk Ruins: this and Undermountain and RA form the standards against which other megadungeons are judged; like RA, its levels are a bit small for my tastes, but Greyhawk Ruins presents a large and complete megadungeon, ready for delving

- The Ruins of Undermountain I (the good one), II (the sucky one), and three stand-alone modules, along with The Fireplace level from Dungeon 128 (and perhaps the Dungeon of the Crypt, both from the Vampires of Waterdeep trilogy): I like UM for it's sheer scale/size, though Skullport's not really my style; you can also cannibalize UM since it's not a complete mega-dungeon either (though, like Maure Castle, it does provide an outline of the whole)

- And of course, there's always the Castle Greyhawk/Dunfalcon/Zagyg/El Raja Key/Maure Castle smorgasbord:
1. 2 parts Castle Zagyg: the Upper works by TLG
2. 3 parts Maure Castle (between the levels published in WG5 (original 3 levels)/Dungeon 112 (3 + 1 new level), and the two sequel levels in Dungeons 124 and 139, and Kuntz's freebie level on the PPP web site, you have a lot of content to fill out as dungeon levels below the Castle Zagyg first level dungeon
3. 1 part Greyhawk Ruins (pick out the good stuff, and you can probably use some of the maps too)
4. spice to taste with WG7 Castle Greyhawk, Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk, along with demi-planes from EX1/EX2/WG6 as required

I don't own Castle Whiterock (kicking myself for not picking one up last year at DunDraCon on the cheap...), or WLD (never got into it after all of the negative press, and the concept seemed far too random to me too---1 encounter with each monster in the MM or somesuch??), Ptolus (too expensive, though I do think that the BaneWarrens is Monte's best published d20 adventure), so I can't really comment on them as megadungeon producs.

 

[grodog]

In terms of megadungeon ideas, there are several worthwhile threads over on Dragonsfoot, Knights & Knaves, OD&D Discussion, and ENWorld that you can mine for maps, encounters, and design principles/concepts:

Original D&D Discussion - How do you go about designing your MegaDungeon?
Original D&D Discussion - Dungeon Creation Discussions

Dragonsfoot • View topic - Megadungeon mapping

KNIGHTS & KNAVES ALEHOUSE :: View topic - Key elements to good dungeon design 101
KNIGHTS & KNAVES ALEHOUSE :: View Forum - Megadungeons!

Dungeon layout, map flow and old school game design - EN World D&D / RPG News
http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/243989-megadungeon-sandbox-d-d-4th-edition.html
http://www.enworld.org/forum/genera...ld-these-maps-make-fun-dungeon-adventure.html

Enjoy!

 

[Mercurius]

Here's another question, for those DMs that have run mega-dungeons: Did your players map it as they went? Or was that too time-consuming? And if they didn't map it, how did they get out? (Or didn't they?!)

 

[SolitonMan]

I guess I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that my own Ptolus product is pretty much the setup you describe (city with a massive dungeon beneath it which hooks up to the underdark with dark elves, etc.). While it has a lot of material about that dungeon, however, it is mostly about the city above.

Well I can say that I'd love to buy a copy of Ptolus, but darn it all, it's almost impossible to find!

Any chance that there will be a reprinting at some point?

(Please accept my apologies if this has been asked/answered to death, my Googling has failed to retrieve the specific answer I seek...)

 

[Raven Crowking]

Here's another question, for those DMs that have run mega-dungeons: Did your players map it as they went? Or was that too time-consuming? And if they didn't map it, how did they get out? (Or didn't they?!)

IME, it is "map or die", although a simple line map will do.


RC

 

[Monte At Home]

Well I can say that I'd love to buy a copy of Ptolus, but darn it all, it's almost impossible to find!

Any chance that there will be a reprinting at some point?

(Please accept my apologies if this has been asked/answered to death, my Googling has failed to retrieve the specific answer I seek...)

Unfortunately, no plans to reprint. However, you can get it in PDF.

RPGNow.com - Malhavoc Press - Ptolus: Monte Cook's City By The Spire

I mention that primarily because it seems some people incorrected believed that our 3rd edition pdfs went away on Jan. 1st, but that's not the case.

 

[Beginning of the End]

While I always seem to come back around to Rappan Athuk in curiosity (or maybe it is the name), I've been a bit off-put by it, reading comments like it is a "killer dungeon" in which entire party death is inevitable, sort of like how I remember feeling about Tomb of Horrors back in the day.

Rappan Athuk isn't particularly similar to Tomb of Horrors. It's a "killer dungeon" in the old school sense that the adventure doesn't come with guardrails: If the PCs are injudicious in their explorations, they'll find themselves stumbling into opponents they shouldn't be fighting yet.

Start PCs around 5th level when they first approach the complex and you shouldn't have any problems.