Pathfinder 1E Designing new caster base classes for unfilled niches?

[VelvetViolet]

While comparing the different spellcasting classes, I noticed that there was an uneven distribution of classes based on spell lists and primary abilities. Intelligence- and Wisdom-based casters always prepare their spells (from spellbooks/familiars and meditation, respectively) and Charisma-based casters always cast spontaneously. As far as I've been able to find, there is no divine equivalent to the Wizard that draws on the divine spell lists (e.g. the archivist from Heroes of Horror), no spontaneous counterpart to the druid, and there is no Wisdom-based arcane caster. (Not including partial caster classes without full spell progression.)

[TABLE="width: 0"] [TR] [TD]Spells
[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Intelligence
[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Wisdom
[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Charisma
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Cleric
[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Sage¹
[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Cleric
[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Oracle
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Druid
[/TD] [TD="align: center"]???
[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Druid
[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Shaman²
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Witch
[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Witch
[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Sèvitè³
[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Arcanist⁴
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Wizard
[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Wizard
[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Spellweaver⁵
[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Sorcerer
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Any
[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Theurge²⁶
[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Magister⁷
[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Mystic⁸
[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] ¹ Archetype from Priest Base Class (3pp)
² Base class from New Paths Compendium (3pp)
³ Base class from Into The Breach: The Witch (3pp)
⁴ Unlettered Arcanist (Archetype) with the Spell Finesse (Charisma) feat to remove MAD (3pp)
⁵ Base class from The Spellweaver (3pp); using the Weave of Will feat
⁶ Using the Spell Finesse (Intelligence) feat to remove MAD (3pp)
⁷ Base class from Genius Guide to the Magister (3pp); using the Spell Finesse (Wisdom) feat to remove MAD (3pp)
⁸ Base class from Prestige Archetype: Blood Mystic (3pp)

If I was trying to design base classes that filled niches like "divine wizard" or "wisdom arcane caster," what do you think would be appropriate class features?

The concept of the divine wizard is simple: he relies on Intelligence and spellbooks (prayerbooks) like a Wizard, but casts divine spells and can learn from any divine class' spell list (not just the cleric's) assuming he can find an appropriate scroll or something. It can work out as a simple wizard archetype, like the one I wrote up here. Is the wizard's class features appropriate or should the class benefit from something else?

Aside from changing up the Witch class to rely on Wisdom (e.g. Goblin Witch (Archetype) from 3pp; if not goblinoid, using the "racial heritage (goblinoid)" feat to qualify), a Wisdom-based arcane caster could be pretty unique. Taking cues from the Chaos Mage and the D&D Wild Mage, perhaps such as class would automatically know the spells on every arcane class' spell list and could cast them spontaneously, but at the cost of often provoking wild surges and other uncontrollable chaotic effects. The use of Wisdom would symbolize warping reality through sheer force of will, rather than drawing on internal or external magical power. EDIT: The Spellweaver base class seems to address these points rather well and can rely on Wisdom with a feat.

 

[Lord Mhoram]

Kobold Press New Path Compendium has the Theurge that does both Wizard and Cleric lists - each in it's own spell progression. The cleric spells on that class uses a Prayerbook so prepares like a Wizard but it uses Wisdom. The Magister from Rogue Genius games "can cast any spell from any list" but half the spells have to be on a specific list - you could use that class and only choose Druid spells for a spontaneous Druid list spellcaster that uses Charisma. Those are two from memory, I'd have to look and see if there are any others that fill those roles.

The breakdown you describe was a specific design choice by the Pathfinder Developers so it is generally followed by 3PP devs.

 

[Robyo]

For the witch class, there is the Scarred Witch Doctor archetype, which uses Constitution as their primary casting ability.

 

[VelvetViolet]

Kobold Press New Path Compendium has the Theurge that does both Wizard and Cleric lists - each in it's own spell progression. The cleric spells on that class uses a Prayerbook so prepares like a Wizard but it uses Wisdom. The Magister from Rogue Genius games "can cast any spell from any list" but half the spells have to be on a specific list - you could use that class and only choose Druid spells for a spontaneous Druid list spellcaster that uses Charisma. Those are two from memory, I'd have to look and see if there are any others that fill those roles.

They aren't what I'm looking for, unfortunately. The Theurge is the Mystic Theurge expanded into a base class, casting both arcane and divine spells without a loss of spell level, but suffers from multiple ability dependency. The Magister is a spontaneous counterpart that also suffers multiple ability dependency (Wisdom for spell levels, Charisma for everything else).

I did find a class called the Shaman class in the New Paths Compendium, which is a spontaneous divine caster that draws from the druid list.

For the witch class, there is the Scarred Witch Doctor archetype, which uses Constitution as their primary casting ability.

Not what I am looking for, sorry.

 

[Lord Mhoram]

They aren't what I'm looking for, unfortunately. The Theurge is the Mystic Theurge expanded into a base class, casting both arcane and divine spells without a loss of spell level, but suffers from multiple ability dependency. The Magister is a spontaneous counterpart that also suffers multiple ability dependency (Wisdom for spell levels, Charisma for everything else).

Yeah, I know they didn't exactly fit - they were the only things I could think of that came close.

Good luck.

 

[Voadam]

Unearthed Arcana from 3.5 provided rules for turning clerics and druids into spontaneous classes that still use wisdom. It is OGC and I've used those rules in Pathfinder games.

 

[VelvetViolet]

Unearthed Arcana from 3.5 provided rules for turning clerics and druids into spontaneous classes that still use wisdom. It is OGC and I've used those rules in Pathfinder games.

Sorry, that is not what I am looking for. I was looking for a class that is to the druid what the oracle is to the cleric. I found such a class in New Paths Compendium named the Shaman (not to be confused with the hybrid class from Advanced Class Guide).

Now, all I'm looking for is a divine counterpart to the Wizard and a Wisdom-based arcane caster.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Now, all I'm looking for is a divine counterpart to the Wizard and a Wisdom-based arcane caster.

Just so you know, it may not actually exist. It's not as though any designers specifically wrote out the grid and then looked to fill in the gaps. Divine spells just don't lend themselves toward Intelligence, and arcane spells don't lend themselves to Wisdom. Charisma just happens to be the replacement stat for both of them.

I mean, there's nothing wrong with looking for these things, but failure is also an option.

 

[VelvetViolet]

Divine spells just don't lend themselves toward Intelligence, and arcane spells don't lend themselves to Wisdom. Charisma just happens to be the replacement stat for both of them.

I don't agree with that at all. HoH already gave us the archivist, a divine caster who relies on Intelligence (and what I'm looking for is an OGC equivalent). PF gave us the Charisma-based Paladin who prepares spells. There's really no reason why Intelligence and Wisdom cannot be used for both arcane and divine spells.

I've been doing more thinking and searching. The witch class from the APG seems like it would be more appropriate to use Wisdom, not Intelligence. The witch draws her power from a patron in much the same way clerics and druids do (though with a limit on known spells per the wizard). As it turns out, someone already made an OGC goblin witch archetype that changes her casting ability to Wisdom for spells and hexes. I don't understand why that archetype would be goblin only, but whatever.