Destiny's Tears OOC- Prologue: A Jewel in the Shadow Part 2

[Thanee]

Rystil:

[SBLOCK]

I can definitely see that, but then I have trouble with the guy who rolled the same initiative as your spellcaster and happens to go first merely because of higher dexterity.

Initiative is just a mechanic to derive a distinctive order of actions in an abstract system. All actions in a round happen *simultaneously* anyways. Initiative is not a time count. The difference between 10 and 16 initiative or 16.+1 and 16.+2 is exactly the same. It's the difference of being able to act first and going last, with no meaningful value for the gap between these two.

Disrupt spellcasting is a specific case, which is based (IMHO) on the motion and the following Concentration check (as explained above), there is no such thing to disrupt other actions, because they don't require the same amount of concentration to work. In both cases, spellcasting and standing up, the provoking action gets resolved after the AoO, the only difference between the two is the added Concentration check for the spellcasting attempt.

Note: Just in case... I'm just explaining how I see it and why, if you want to do it differently, that's absolutely no problem with me. I just thought it was a point worthy of being pointed out. [/SBLOCK]

Bye
Thanee

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

Fast learner, I guess

A power gamer is born every minute...

 

[Rystil Arden]

Thanee:
[SBLOCK]
Hmm...I see. So I think you're saying that the damage in both cases is non-simultaneous to the actual casting, but the AoO causes a Concentration check by virtue of a special exception (normally damage has to be ongoing like a Melf's Acid Arrow or simultaneous) for AoOs? That certainly makes sense--its enough to convince me that it can be done, although simply making it an exception will not be enough to convince the pro-trip people in my home group.

Note: Just in case... I'm just explaining how I see it and why, if you want to do it differently, that's absolutely no problem with me. I just thought it was a point worthy of being pointed out.

No problem I completely understand and I did actually ask you to help me see it your way because I'd rather see it that way if I can. I don't see your explanation as anything but what it is
[/SBLOCK]

 

[Rystil Arden]

A power gamer is born every minute...

She started with a character concept, though, and it seemed like she picked up the extra power by chance

 

[Thanee]

Rystil:

[SBLOCK]

So I think you're saying that the damage in both cases is non-simultaneous to the actual casting, but the AoO causes a Concentration check by virtue of a special exception (normally damage has to be ongoing like a Melf's Acid Arrow or simultaneous) for AoOs?

And ready actions, yes.

The point is, it's completely irrelevant, that the damage is simultaneous or not. Both AoO and Ready are abstractions meant to model a certain difficulty into performing actions. If you look at it with logic, a spellcaster who suffers a full-attack action, surely would also get some damage during the spellcasting attempt, the poor creature gets whacked for the whole round, basically. But the rules - on the mechanical level - don't work that way, actions are not resolved in a parallel fashion, because that is too complicated, therefore they are put into a sequence through the initiative mechanic; and that's where the special case rules come into play to put back some logic into this whole abstract system.[/SBLOCK]

Bye
Thanee

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

She started with a character concept, though, and it seemed like she picked up the extra power by chance

Well that's cool.

Anyhow looks like the post I'm waiting for isn't coming anytime soon. I'll be back later.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Thanee:
[SBLOCK]
Hmm...I get it. This is not the way my group has been playing it (we see the readies and AoOs as simultaneous and hence subject to the Concentration rules without making them a special case). I do not think I could convince anyone else to accept this explanation, then (since it would require us to rework the way we think of combat), but I can certainly agree to use it at least for this game because I like that it stops the "Ever-Trip" strategy
[/SBLOCK]

 

[Rystil Arden]

Well that's cool.

Anyhow looks like the post I'm waiting for isn't coming anytime soon. I'll be back later.

Okey dokey, see you after I'm back from dinner then

 

[Thanee]

Rystil:

[SBLOCK]I believe, there is a rather simple explanation, why the simultaneous-stuff does not work as an explanation. If you see initiative as a time scale, which would be the foundation of that view, you are looking at a combat that works like this.

Second 1: Character 1 moves 30 ft. and hits Character 2. Then stands around idle for another 5 seconds.
Second 2: Nothing happens.
Second 3: ...

I guess you know what I mean by now.

This, obviously, cannot be explained in any logical way. Combat is abstract. Everything happens simultaneously, anyways, but just not mechanically.[/SBLOCK]

Bye
Thanee

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

Okey dokey, see you after I'm back from dinner then

Cool, though I do find it strangely peculiar that every time it’s "any post now" it ends up being delayed.