detect evil

[pisceanmars]

does evil stay with you years after occuring in your past?

for example let's say we have a guy who used to do some really evil assassin's work decades ago in his youth and early adulthood, but that he changed his entire life and works with the diseased and handicapped in the local medical practice. would a paladin, upon using his detect evil ability, or the detect evil spell in general, show him as evil? would he be detected as good under the other version of the spell?

also, what about a character with multiple personalities, one twisted and psychotic torture loving baby killer, and a completely antithetical nature that the person would switch between?

would he only detect evil when he was under the evil persona's influence, when the intent to do evil is there?

 

[Voadam]

Does a person who has years before changed from evil to good detect as good? Yes it is the current alignment of the subject that is detected and alignments can change from evil to good with heartfelt change and consistent actions to back it up. If his good works were only a deep cover for the assassin then he would detect as evil, an evil character can do good actions and remain evil.

 

[Drawmack]

for example let's say we have a guy who used to do some really evil assassin's work decades ago in his youth and early adulthood, but that he changed his entire life and works with the diseased and handicapped in the local medical practice. would a paladin, upon using his detect evil ability, or the detect evil spell in general, show him as evil? would he be detected as good under the other version of the spell?

also, what about a character with multiple personalities, one twisted and psychotic torture loving baby killer, and a completely antithetical nature that the person would switch between?

First let me say that these spells are commonly house ruled such that they only work on inatly aligned things. For example a demon is always evil. However something who's alignment varries, or can vary like humanoids.

Now lets move onto the core rules way of doing it. First I would say that in scenario I the character's alignment had changed in accordance with his appifany.

Allow me to quote the general definition of what these spell do.

1st Round: Presence or absence of ________.
2nd Round: Number of ________ auras (creatures, objects, or spells) in the area and the strength of the strongest ________ aura present. If the character is of ________ alignment, the strongest ________ aura’s strength is "overwhelming" (see below), and the strength is at least twice the character's character level, the character is stunned for 1 round and the spell ends. While the character is stunned, the character can’t act, the character loses any Dexterity bonus to AC, and attackers gain +2 bonuses to attack the character.
3rd Round: The strength and location of each aura. If an aura is outside the character's line of sight, then the character discerns its direction but not its exact location.
Aura Strength: An aura’s ________ power and strength depend on the type of ________ creature or object that the character is detecting and its HD, caster level, or (in the case of a cleric) class level.

The house rulling noted above does have some support for the text as if refers to the evil creature which leaves it up to your definition of an evil creature. Anyway moving on.

The second question, "what about a character with multiple personalities, one twisted and psychotic torture loving baby killer, and a completely antithetical nature that the person would switch between?"

After 1 round: they will detect the presence of the chaos.
After 2 round: they will detect a single aura of chaos.
After 3 round: they will locate the section of the persons brain where this aura lives.

This gets really interesting when casting multiple detect spells at once though. He shows on all of them.

 

[maddman75]

Here's how I have always handled these things.

There are two types of responses. The first is innate evil. Things like fiends, chromatic dragons, and undead are innately evil and always detect as such. A few characters, such as evil clerics and blackguards will also go into this category.

The second is evil intent. A character who currently is planning to commit evil acts, or having evil thoughts in general, will detect. So an assassin who is looking for an opening to put a knife in the back of a merchant will detect as evil, but the same one who is sitting at a bar minding his own business won't.

That way you don't run into the "He detects as evil!!! Attack!!" problem.

Know Alignment works normally.

 

[Dinkeldog]

Moved to rules, where things like "how would you adjudicate this?" get discussed.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Hmm. Two things here: first, 3e doesn't have a Know Alignment spell.

Second, your proposed fixes don't elimnate the "He detects as evil!!! Attack!!" problem. I can't imagine them doing anything other than exacerbating it. Under the normal rules, if a you detect evil on the barkeep, it could mean that he's been paying off the local thieves' guild to drive a rival out of business. Or maybe he's instructed his bouncers to rough up any beggars that come close to his door. Or maybe he's a fiend in disguise. The paladin or cleric detecting evil just doesn't know. Attack is not the correct response.

Under your supposed "fix" if the barkeep detects as evil that means he's either planning on poisoning someone's drink in the immediate future or is a polymorphed Pit Fiend. Attack may very well be the appropriate response (you're certainly not in the wrong to attack--the only question is whether or not you can handle what you attacked). By making sure that all of the "mild" evils don't show up on Detect Evil, you've turned Detect Evil into Detect Villain.

Detect Evil (as written) has never been problematic for me in my campaigns--or in writing Living Greyhawk modules. Detect Villain would present a boatload of problems.

Here's how I have always handled these things.

There are two types of responses. The first is innate evil. Things like fiends, chromatic dragons, and undead are innately evil and always detect as such. A few characters, such as evil clerics and blackguards will also go into this category.

The second is evil intent. A character who currently is planning to commit evil acts, or having evil thoughts in general, will detect. So an assassin who is looking for an opening to put a knife in the back of a merchant will detect as evil, but the same one who is sitting at a bar minding his own business won't.

That way you don't run into the "He detects as evil!!! Attack!!" problem.

Know Alignment works normally.

 

[Dr_Rictus]

Under the normal rules, if a you detect evil on the barkeep, it could mean that he's been paying off the local thieves' guild to drive a rival out of business. Or maybe he's instructed his bouncers to rough up any beggars that come close to his door. Or maybe he's a fiend in disguise. The paladin or cleric detecting evil just doesn't know. Attack is not the correct response.

Moreover, he could be a right son-of-a-bitch, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's doing anything illegal. PC's who attack anyone who happens to be a bad person would be strung up in any law-abiding society.

 

[shilsen]

As Elder Basilisk and Dr Rictus have pointed out, most of these fixes, esp. the one where Detect Evil detects only really evil creatures simply exacerbates the problem. I'm running Detect Evil as written (the PHB description indicates that it applies to everyone - not just innately evil creatures) and it never poses a problem. My PCs know that they interact with a number of evil people on a daily basis. Coincidentally, I just sent the following email message to another player in my group:

"Remember that while D&D alignment is objective, it is something that only some people can detect (spellcasters). So most people know that it can be detected, but can't do so themselves and have to trust someone to tell them that someone else is evil (or good or lawful or chaotic). Also, in most human societies (predominant alignment: neutral), there's a wide cross-section of all alignments, and there are a number of evil people openly walking around. Someone being evil is not an indictment or evidence against them in a court of law. If a paladin walks into a bar and detects evil, he'll detect the drunk at the bar (who beats his wife & children regularly), the fat merchant having an ale (a greedy miser who cheats all his customers), the group of guys whispering in a corner (spies who've also cut a few throats), and the guy with a robe and staff in the corner (an evil mage who is enjoying his wine and not thinking of harming anyone at all). Now if the paladin walked up and smote any of them, that would be a seriously evil act in itself. Good and evil people interact on a daily basis. Sure, you might not like to interact with a particular person, but unless you're a paladin or a cleric of a particularly zealous good deity, it's more likely to be because you just don't like the other guy as a person than because he's evil. It's a matter of character, rather than alignment."

 

[Zaruthustran]

does evil stay with you years after occuring in your past?

for example let's say we have a guy who used to do some really evil assassin's work decades ago in his youth and early adulthood, but that he changed his entire life and works with the diseased and handicapped in the local medical practice. would a paladin, upon using his detect evil ability, or the detect evil spell in general, show him as evil? would he be detected as good under the other version of the spell?

also, what about a character with multiple personalities, one twisted and psychotic torture loving baby killer, and a completely antithetical nature that the person would switch between?

would he only detect evil when he was under the evil persona's influence, when the intent to do evil is there?

Just look at the Assassin's stat block, under "Alignment." If you see the word "Evil", then the guy detects as Evil.

If your question is "Would the assassin's actions change his 'evil' alignment to something other than 'evil'?" Well, that's up to the DM. If the man's changes are honest and true, then sure, change his alignment. And, if his alignment is no longer evil, then he won't show up on that paladin's "Detect Evil" screen.

-z

 

[dcollins]

That way you don't run into the "He detects as evil!!! Attack!!" problem.

Let me suggest a better, and rules-compliant solution... anywhere the PCs go in my campaign, someone is probably at least a bit evil in alignment. Whenever the paladin starts walking down main street in a village detecting evil (as happened last thursday), well, there's at least a handful of mean old ladies, selfish men, and child bullies who dimly radiate evil.

At which point the paladin and the rest of the group think for a second, scowl, and decide to move on.