Detect Magic is Dead

[neceros]

wow I touched a nerve, huh?

I just think it fits the roles- one guy spends his time with books, the other in the arena.

it makes the players feel special if everyone gets to shine in their own way outside of combat- the ftr can intimidate at the tavern, the rogue can sneak into the tavern at night etc.

We'll have to see how the rules work. If anyone can enchant an item then I don't think mages need to be special anymore.

I like the rule: You can only identify things you normally use or are proficient with.

 

[Kwalish Kid]

Whereas Detect Magic is the radar you use on a pile of loot to determine what you take home and what you leave to rot.

That almost made me spit my coffee out on my keyboard!

 

[Lord Mhoram]

Rolemaster had a skill called Attunement that let the character know what a magic item did. following that I've used some skill (or non weapon prof) to replace/supplement identify type spells in my D&D for forever. Glad to see that 4th is handling it this way.

 

[Storminator]

If we use an Arcana check (DC = 10 + Item Level), and every class gets (level/2+Int mod) bonus to the check, and we allow take 20, shouldn't a 1st level fighter be able to reliably identify level 10 items? level 6 if you've got a 3 INT?

Sounds like a pointless complication. Better to just make it automatic and move on.

I'm running Savage Tides right now, and my players' loot sheet recently looked like this:

Rapier: Issue 142, page 56
Crown: Issue 142, page 48
Cloak: Issue 141, page 37
Potion (2): Issue 141, page 42

What a pain...

PS

 

[jaer]

wow I touched a nerve, huh?

I just think it fits the roles- one guy spends his time with books, the other in the arena.

it makes the players feel special if everyone gets to shine in their own way outside of combat- the ftr can intimidate at the tavern, the rogue can sneak into the tavern at night etc.

What if you have a book-smart Fighter and a combat-happy Wizard? There is little within a class that determines if you spend your free time in a library or getting into bar brawls.

If you are going on making people feel special, wouldn't it make a book-worm fighter feel special if he could be the one identifying treasure? At least then he is being rewarded for role playing his character and going against the big, dumb, strong guy stereotype for his class. Rewarding a player for developing his character is more important to me (and seems more inline with your "making players shine" idea) than needlesses rewarding or hindering someone because of the class/role they decided to play.

 

[Chibbot]

I don't know that I will bother house-ruling it when I run, but if I do it will likely be along the lines of:

martial power source characters can identify weapons and armor
arcane psc can identify wands/staves/orbs/rods and robes
divine psc can identify holy symbols etc...

Or, perhaps more simply, you can identify whatever your class (or a feat) gives you proficiency with, because you're familiar enough with the item normally to notice the difference.

 

[SuperGnome]

Yeah, I think this is just a cop out. Make it easy so people don't whine about it, even thoguh it doesn't make too much sense. I also feel it bleeds a lot of the fantastic mystery surrounding magic items. IMO, there -should- be some crap you have to go through to at least fully ID an item. Go to a sage or a wizard, or get someone to read a scroll... whatever.

To some extent, a character should be able to get an idea of what something does by trying to use it, but that's obviously pretty risky business. "You find a plain gold ring with some writing inside, the characters of which you do not recognize." So you get someone to decipher the writing and get a command word.. but what does it do? Take a chance using it blindly or have someone investigate for you? Seems cooler than "After a nap you know your ring is a Ring of the Ram."

It's all these little details sucking the color out of the game. I know you can just change how it works, but why not make this watered down approach the option instead of the standard? Not everything needs to be easy. Gah.. I'm just irritated.

 

[Storminator]

Not everything needs to be easy. Gah.. I'm just irritated.

Right, but if the rules make the irritating, useless, time wasting, fun killing junk easy, then you can spend your session enjoying yourself. But that's not for everyone, obviously...

PS

 

[Wormwood]

. . . but why not make this watered down approach the option instead of the standard? Not everything needs to be easy.

Because it's easier to add complication to an easy system than it is to remove complication from a complicated system.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Yes, let's go back to making the wizard the only important member of the party.

Sheesh. In your games, does taking a level of Fighter automatically lobotomize you? D&D is high-magic; there's no reason why any random hero can't figure out what a magic sword does. Well, no reason except your fanboy love of wizards.

While I have no problem with any class identifying magical items , doing so by sitting down and taking a fiver seems a little weak. And you are right, wizards are no longer any more important than another class. All clases are simply superheroes.Wizards are just CC and ranged DPS, and easily replaced.