Detect Magic is Dead

[Thasmodious]

I would say this is one based on market research. Most groups were already basically doing the same thing. I know the groups I play with, both tabletop and online, do. With 3e I started out with the book method, then houseruled a system where detect magic earned you skill checks (knowledge, spellcraft) to identify items and the identify spell (without 100gp pearls) gave you a +10 on the checks, which were based on the caster level of the items. That turned out to be a pain, too, so I eventually started just telling them, except for the occasional big item.

I never really liked the 1e -hop around and yell words- method either. The clownishness of the scene broke my suspension. But I like the idea of a scene like this:

Fighter (looking at longsword): Balanced, perfectly sharp despite its age, the steel is folded in the dwarf manner...
Warlord: Hmm, this sword is definitely from the Darmel empire, from the Goblin Wars, you can tell by the etching along the pommel.
-hands it off to druid-
Druid: I feel elemental power in this...warmth, fire...
-hands off to wizard-
Wizard: the Darmelians spoke an archaic dialect of Dwarven, fire was "beloc"
-sword bursts into flames-
Fighter: Mine! Mine! Mine!

I like the skill challenge idea, too. Not for everything, but for unique items with varied powers, could be fun.

 

[Mort]

There are no skillpoints in D&D 4th edition anymore (fortunately). Only trained or not trained (meaning, a constant +5 bonus).

I guess I was stuck in a 3e mindset for the post (though there are essentially skill points they are just more automatically assigned than 3e)- but the point is still valid. If a fighter wants to be trained in aracana they will probably need to spend something like a feat for it - that's seems a significant enough investment. Also if a check is required and a fighter is high enough level that an untrained 1/2 level check will suffice that too is ok by me (it means the fighter has seen so much by that point that why shouldn't they know a bit about magic).

 

[Stormtalon]

Might I point out that even in 3.5 the Magic Item section in the DMG stated something along the lines that around 50% of items by default communicated their properties to their user in some manner, be it runes, inscription or an odd imprinting of "this is what I do" in the mind of whoever picks it up?

So, this isn't that much different; it's just extending it to probably another 30-40% of the items out there. What's the big beef?

 

[szilard]

I'm hoping that the Arcana skill reflects some basic magic use (compare to "Use the Force" in Star Wars Saga) so that the skill check called is, effectively, to use Detect Magic/Identify.

-Stuart

 

[SuperGnome]

What, you mean that fantastic mystery that is solved by casting a 1st-level spell?

Assuming that the rules state you can only identify an item that you can use in this way, I'm very happy with this. Why should the wizard be the one to ask about the Great Big Spiky Weapon of Death? Most wizards don't care about swords.

Identify doesn't spill the beans on items, just reveals the main aspect of that item.

As for Wizards not caring about swords, they care about magic, and depending on the character/NPC, varying forms of that magic. In some cases, the history of the item and lal lore involved. Sometimes a +1 sword isn't just a +1 sword. Also, fighters aren't the ones making the magic swords... After all that, other wizards prefer swords to staffs... It's all about the color.

I honestly don't see anything being wrong with having to ID stuff, or using trial and error. Someone mentioned the time it take to RP play by play what someone tries with it, and in that sense, the new rules make sense. I'm all for streamlining the game to some extent, but at what point is it a different game? At what point is it just an automated process and not something you're engaged in? This is just an instance where I feel a rules change wasn't needed, and detracts from the color and tone of what I consider D&D. That, and it doesn't make sense in some cases.

I'm kind of an odd duck I suppose, and that D&D isn't about combat for me. I enjoy combat/challenges and look forward to them, but that's maybe half the game. I enjoy my characters having to deal with some parts of existing in a world other than the crunch-related bits. I'm not saying I want to worry about whether my character shaves\eats a balanced diet\has a rash (unless I was playing with mummies... then I want to know about rashes and the like)... but you can't take all that out of the game. I think magic items are important enough to be handled with more care.


*wrote that 3 times and that's the shortest of them. It's an affliction! Not trying to defend my position either, just explain it. Cheers!

 

[Kunimatyu]

Also, fighters aren't the ones making the magic swords...

Don't be too surprised when this turns out to probably not be the case. I suspect anyone with a little Arcane or Religion can make enchanted swords -- which finally lets martial characters pull off a "master smith" setup.

 

[Wormwood]

Don't be too surprised when this turns out to probably not be the case. I suspect anyone with a little Arcane or Religion can make enchanted swords -- which finally lets martial characters pull off a "master smith" setup.

I'm Bruenor Battlehammer, and I approve this message.

 

[SuperGnome]

Don't be too surprised when this turns out to probably not be the case. I suspect anyone with a little Arcane or Religion can make enchanted swords -- which finally lets martial characters pull off a "master smith" setup.

Good point, and that'd be pretty cool.

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

Identify doesn't spill the beans on items, just reveals the main aspect of that item.

Not since at least 3.5...

The spell determines all magic properties of a single magic item, including how to activate those functions (if appropriate), and how many charges are left (if any).

 

[JohnSnow]

I never really liked the 1e -hop around and yell words- method either. The clownishness of the scene broke my suspension. But I like the idea of a scene like this:

Fighter (looking at longsword): Balanced, perfectly sharp despite its age, the steel is folded in the dwarf manner...
Warlord: Hmm, this sword is definitely from the Darmel empire, from the Goblin Wars, you can tell by the etching along the pommel.
-hands it off to druid-
Druid: I feel elemental power in this...warmth, fire...
-hands off to wizard-
Wizard: the Darmelians spoke an archaic dialect of Dwarven, fire was "beloc"
-sword bursts into flames-
Fighter: Mine! Mine! Mine!

I like the skill challenge idea, too. Not for everything, but for unique items with varied powers, could be fun.

I actually don't see any reason why the Fourth Edition scene wouldn't play out just like that. Essentially, we're saying that given the PCs varied talents, they can suss out one magic ability of each object in a 5 minute timeframe.

They might be checking a sword's edge, perusing its runes, using basic historical or arcane knowledge, remembering what the arms of Golrag the Conqueror were, or they might just be trying all kinds of silly things with it.

My last DM had a habit of making all healing potions a vivid green hue. Same with other potions. For people who think the trial and error stuff is amusing, that could easily be handled as a cut scene. The player gives a quick (although not necessarily exhaustive) list of things he's going to try to find out what something does, and the DM gets to go crazy describing a Looney Tunes montage - and then tell the player what the item does, possibly with a scene involving a silly pratfall to trigger an event that wasn't in the player's list.

Now everyone's happy. Elapsed time - Five minutes, a short rest. Ta-da!