Detect Magic is Dead

[SuperGnome]

Not since at least 3.5...

What the heck was I reading? I'm I thinking 3e or what? Cripes... Last year I got mixed up and actually tried to cast 2e Cantrip in a 3.5 game. *8( I haven't played 2e for YEARS!!!

*looks around for empty booze bottles to blame*

 

[Engilbrand]

The game isn't like it once was. A Fighter can gain a ritual to strip the magic from an item and put it onto another one. I have a desire to play a Fighter with the Wizard or Warlock multiclass feat who uses some of his extra items to improve his family (insert whatever weapon turns out to do ridiculous damage. Axe or Maul most likely.) Even if Fighters aren't "creating" magic items, they CAN be stripping some of power and shifting it to something else. We have a Paradigm Shift, and it's one that makes me happy. Screw Identify.
To metagame a bit: I like the idea of identifying items and having the DM say, "You can't quite get a grasp on exactly what it does..." We now have a plothook for an adventure that will end with something more exciting than, "Tada! It's a +2 Sword!"

 

[drjones]

The OPs mistake is a reasonable question though. We have zero evidence that there is or isn't a detect magic spell. In my preview games I just told the players that some items seemed 'nicer' than the usual stuff, which has the same effect and does not require the party have a wizard.

personally I hated in previous editions when I would make some fancy new magi item and then the players would forget to search that room and I woudl feel like it was 'cheating' to give hints or move it into the next room on the fly. My parties seemed to get about half the magic items in any adventure. Maybe they just 'lost' at dnd?

Anyway the focus seems to be that you should reward overcoming obstacles, not rolling real high on a spot check or casting a spell at the right moment so I imagine the default is that all magic items are 'noticed'. I wonder what the official rule/suggestion will be?

 

[Stormtalon]

Anyway the focus seems to be that you should reward overcoming obstacles, not rolling real high on a spot check or casting a spell at the right moment so I imagine the default is that all magic items are 'noticed'. I wonder what the official rule/suggestion will be?

With the parcel system, it seems only appropriate to "shift parcels on the fly" so that the appropriate amount of cash/items is found by the party over the course of a level. However, it should be done in such a way that it "feels" to the players that the items in question were there all along, even if they originally resided in Unexplored Room #32 two buildings and three floors down from where they're actually found.

 

[JVisgaitis]

Yes, let's go back to making the wizard the only important member of the party. Sheesh.

Um, how do you figure? The power sources are neatly broken out in 4e. Wizards knowledge is of the arcane. Like someone else said, what does a fighter know about a Robe of Stars.

My big beef with all of this (and most of the issues I'm starting to have with 4e) is everything is getting dumbed down. For the most part, I don't mind and I can live with the magic item thing. The problem with the way its handled know it that we are losing the mystery and coolness of magic items. Its like coming up with midichlorians to explain the Force. LAME!

EDIT: Wow, my Editor would cry if he would have seen this post...

 

[DandD]

Um, how do you figure? The power sources are neatly broken out in 4e. Wizards knowledge is of the arcane. Like someone else said, what does a fighter know about a Robe of Stars.

My big beef with all of this (and most of the issues I'm starting to have with 4e) is everything is getting dumbed down. For the most part, I don't mind and even this I can live with the magic item thing. The problem with the way its handled know it that we are losing the mysetery and coolness of magic items. Its like coming up with midichlorians to explain the Force. LAME!

Who says that magic is only arcane? It could be part of the martial too. Or part of the divine source. Heck, with new power sources coming, it could be psionic, primal, artistical, John-Balloney-stical or whatever.
There ain't no reason in D&D 4th edition why only wizards should be able to identify. Especially then if hopefully you don't have to be a mage anymore to create magic items.
D&D- 3.X-simulationism will hopefully die a miserable and humiliating death.

 

[Family]

Its like coming up with midichlorians to explain the Force.

I injected myself with so many microscopic lifeforms in the hopes that this was true...

...and now the doctors say I only have weeks left to live

LUCAS!!!

 

[Thasmodious]

The problem with the way its handled know it that we are losing the mysetery and coolness of magic items

I think its quite the opposite, actually. Where was the mystery and coolness in a party having a pile of magic swords from their mid level opponents where each one needed to be identified even though they were all the same. Or the PCs finding a sword, the wizard casting identify, and the DM saying "it's +2, moving on..." Magic items aren't about their plusses in 4e, they're about the abilities, which are new and high on cool factor. A group checking items over to discover the powers is interesting and beats the blandness of cast a spell, learn or item (or paying the local Magic-Mart for identifying your latest bag of holding load of +1 swords and daggers)

4e is putting the excitement of magic items back in the game, which I think is great.

 

[jelmore]

If we use an Arcana check (DC = 10 + Item Level), and every class gets (level/2+Int mod) bonus to the check, and we allow take 20, shouldn't a 1st level fighter be able to reliably identify level 10 items? level 6 if you've got a 3 INT?

Yes, but that presumes you can take 20 on Knowledge checks, which I know 3rd Edition did not let you do. ("The check represents what you know, and thinking about a topic a second time doesn’t let you know something that you never learned in the first place.")

3rd Edition let you make untrained Knowledge checks, but the PC couldn't succeed on anything with a DC higher than 10. Which would rule out ID'ing magic items entirely.

If we assume the Arcana skill allows for untrained use for IDing items in 4th Edition, then you're looking at (level / 2) + Int mod, which for a 1st-level Fighter with an Intelligence of 18 means he gets +4. If the DM lets you take 10 on the check, then the fighter can reliably identify level 4 or lower items. That doesn't seem out of whack. (Being trained would let you ID 9th level items for a fighter with Int 18, but that means blowing a feat on Skill Training or Arcane Initiate; I assume that Fighters don't get Arcana as a class skill.)

 

[Keefe the Thief]

I'm Bruenor Battlehammer, and I approve this message.

Oh yes yes yes please! Dwarven fighter smithing magic weapon is times metal!