Detect Magic question

[RigaMortus2]

Detect Magic takes a couple rounds for it to work to it's fullest potential.

1st Round: Presence or absence of magical auras.
2nd Round: Number of different magical auras and the power of the most potent aura.
3rd Round: The strength and location of each aura. If the items or creatures bearing the auras are in line of sight, you can make Spellcraft skill checks to determine the school of magic involved in each. (Make one check per aura; DC 15 + spell level, or 15 + half caster level for a nonspell effect.)

My question is, if someone is Detecting Magic in a direction where someone is doing a Spell-like or Supernatural ability (that has an instaneous duration) multiple times, what happens?

I know they would be able to detect the SLA or (Su) presence, but then the effect is gone before we get to the 2nd round. A new effect (possibly even the same SLA or (Su)) then occurs the 2nd round, but it is technically a different use, so would it be counted as the 1st round of Detect Magic, or the 2nd?

(Hope I explained that so people understand what I am asking)

 

[Infiniti2000]

My question is, if someone is Detecting Magic in a direction where someone is doing a Spell-like or Supernatural ability (that has an instaneous duration) multiple times, what happens?

Nothing is detected. You don't detect anything until your turn and an instantaneous effect that occured prior to your turn, even if on the same round, will be undetected. This is due to the discrete combat system.

However, there is a little caveat in the DMG on simultaneity should this interpretation bother you. However, I would argue that you would gain only the first round effect of detect magic, i.e. the presence/absence. If other magic is already present, then you would not know that anything happened.

I think a more interesting question occurs if you introduce a new effect at the end of round 2 does that new effect get detected using the 3rd-round rules of detect magic or the first round? In other words, imagine this:

Round 1: you sense magic
Round 2: you sense 3 auras, with faint being the strongest
Round 3: you sense faint at location 1, faint at location 2, faint at location 3, and strong at location 4

That last part doesn't compute for me, but I'm not sure how to handle it.

 

[RigaMortus2]

Well the ability in question is the ability of an Astirax (a monster out of the Midnight campaign setting). They have a Sense Magic ability, which is always on. It works pretty much like Detect Magic though, but the range is actually 1 mile. So what happens is, if magic is used within 1 mile of them, they can sense it happened, but they do not know the direction. They actually get to make a DC 20 Tracking check. If they succeed, they know the general direction. Once they get within 30 feet of the magic source, they can pinpoint it.

So I was wondering, if my party is in a combat and casting instaneous spells (nothing with a duration), the Astirax would know magic happened within 1 mile of him, but he would never get the chance to track it, correct? Unless we were using spells/magic with a continuous duration. And he certainly wouldn't know the strenght or number, right?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Nothing is detected. You don't detect anything until your turn and an instantaneous effect that occured prior to your turn, even if on the same round, will be undetected.

There will be a Dim lingering aura for some rounds or minutes (or perhaps even days, post-Epic).

-Hyp.

 

[mvincent]

Nothing is detected. You don't detect anything until your turn and an instantaneous effect that occured prior to your turn, even if on the same round, will be undetected. This is due to the discrete combat system.

This method seems to imply that a new magic aura would not be noticed until your turn, which would imply that it is initially noticed at the lowest (1 round) level (as you suggest below), or that something that moves around within the field would be be similarly reset (i.e. if you are 'blind' in the interim, there would be little difference between something that moved out-and-in and something that simply moved around), which is complicated and not how I believe the spell works.

I think a more interesting question occurs if you introduce a new effect at the end of round 2 does that new effect get detected using the 3rd-round rules of detect magic or the first round?

It should be detected using the 3rd round rules. The RotG says
"A detect spell doesn't make an invisible creature or object visible, but if an unseen subject is in the area where the spell is aimed, the spell can give some hint of the unseen subject's presence. For example, a detect magic spell reveals the presence or absence of magical auras in the area where it is aimed. An invisible creature using an invisibility spell or magic item has a magical aura (thanks to the active spell or magic item) and a detect magic spell aimed into its area will reveal that aura. All the spell user knows, however, is that there is magic present somewhere within the area where the spell is aimed. If the detect magic user scans that same area for 3 consecutive rounds, the spell can reveal the location of the invisible magical aura (if the creature is still in area). The spell doesn't reveal anything else about the creature, or even that it is a creature at all. The spell user could aim an attack at the creature's location and have a chance to hit it (see Part Two)."

This statement seems to imply that creatures moving around in, out-and-in, or simply into the field should be visible at round 3 levels.

 

[RigaMortus2]

This statement seems to imply that creatures moving around in, out-and-in, or simply into the field should be visible at round 3 levels.

"A detect spell doesn't make an invisible creature or object visible, but if an unseen subject is in the area where the spell is aimed, the spell can give some hint of the unseen subject's presence. For example, a detect magic spell reveals the presence or absence of magical auras in the area where it is aimed. An invisible creature using an invisibility spell or magic item has a magical aura (thanks to the active spell or magic item) and a detect magic spell aimed into its area will reveal that aura. All the spell user knows, however, is that there is magic present somewhere within the area where the spell is aimed. If the detect magic user scans that same area for 3 consecutive rounds, the spell can reveal the location of the invisible magical aura (if the creature is still in area). The spell doesn't reveal anything else about the creature, or even that it is a creature at all. The spell user could aim an attack at the creature's location and have a chance to hit it (see Part Two)."

Doesn't the bolded seem to indicate otherwise?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Doesn't the bolded seem to indicate otherwise?

That's not really the same situation, though - that deals with what would happen if the creature left, but not with what would happen if the creature entered.

Let's say I scan an area with Detect Magic for 3 consecutive rounds, and just before my turn in the third round, someone carries a +1 sword into the area.

Round 1: Reveals the presence or absence of magical auras in the area. Result: No magical auras.
Round 2: Reveals the number of auras (plus the strength of the strongest one) in the area. Result: No auras.
Now the sword is carried in.
Round 3: Reveals the location and strength of each aura in the area. Result: There's a faint aura right there (and Spellcraft might tell me it's Evocation).

I haven't changed which area I'm studying, so in the third round, I know the location and strength of each aura in the area. In the third round, there is an aura in the area I've been studying for me to know the location and strength of.

-Hyp.

 

[MarkB]

It's not the strict RAW interpretation, but I'd have the 3-round rule work for each new aura entering the area. So:

Caster concentrates on an area containing two moderate auras.

Round 1: Caster knows there is at least one aura present.

A new, strong aura enters the area.

Round 2: Caster knows that there are two auras, one of which is moderate, and that at least one new aura has entered the area.

Round 3: Caster knows the location and strength of the two moderate auras and may identify them using Spellcraft, and is aware that a strong aura is also present.

Round 4: Caster knows the location and strength of all auras, and can attempt to identify the strong aura using Spellcraft.