Detect Scrying (stay out Rassilon)

I'll disagree.

The spells says "any attempt to OBSERVE you". If you're scrying my buddy standing next to me, you're certainly observing me. The wizard should be aware. If the spell was only meant to apply to scrying when you are the target then it would say "any scrying attempt where you are the target".

Also, the target of the spell is a 40ft radius. If the spell only applied to the wizard, then the area would be "You" or at least special.

Lastly, I'd argue for the more generous definition based on flavor. If Detect Scrying only works for the wizard being scryed, then anybody can scry the king and there's not much the king can do against it. If you go with the more generous definition, the king can hire a wizard to warn him about scrys and to learn who is scrying.
 

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I've always had a bit of a problem with Scrying.

"Scrying
Saving Throw: Will Negates"

"Succeeding on a Saving Throw: A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack."


In my game, if a PC makes a Will Saving Throw (the player knowing it is a will save), he feels a hostile force. This often tells my players that they are being Scryed on (or possibly Charmed / Dominated).

Granted, I could make the Will Save for them and just tell them about the hostile force, but most Fort and Reflex saves (except for a few spells) have visible effects. Hence, the hostile force typically means either an enchantment spell or a scry.

Either way, Scrying seems to be a sub-optimal spying choice for opponents since it often alerts the target(s) of the attempt.
 

Our group read the RAW to say that if anyone is scryied with the radius, the caster knows about it. How else to interpret ""You know the location..."?

SRD-Detect Scrying said:
You immediately become aware of any attempt to observe you by means of a divination (scrying) spell or effect. The spell’s area radiates from you and moves as you move. You know the location of every magical sensor within the spell’s area.

If the scrying attempt originates within the area, you also know its location; otherwise, you and the scrier immediately make opposed caster level checks (1d20 + caster level). If you at least match the scrier’s result, you get a visual image of the scrier and an accurate sense of his or her direction and distance from you.
 

Bad Paper said:
I disagree. If you are standing a few feet away from someone who is being scryed upon, you too will be observed by that particular divination. You will be alerted.
Ah, so if you are invisible and the scryer doesn't have see invisibility, then you do not detect the scrying, right? Or, if you are behind cover? Then again, it says 'attempt' so even if you are invisible the attempt was made. How about if your buddy is in a lead block (or makes his save), do you detect the attempt on him? The attempt supposedly is also on you (based on the word observe), but it failed and you were never actually observed.

In the end, it really doesn't matter. Allowing it to detect all scrying sensors in a 40ft radius will not be unbalanced. But, if that's what the spell intended to do, it's quite easy to just delete the first sentence and replace "magical" in the third sentence with "divination (scrying) spell or effect". :)
 

Its there for spells like clarivoyance which say they creat a sensor - a single point of visibility so you can move to cover from the camera, the effect is the entire 40 ft radius- its line of sight.
 

kyloss said:
Its there for spells like clarivoyance which say they creat a sensor
Exactly. Arcane eye too. Note that the Scrying spell itself doesn't actually create a sensor per se, so if someone else had Scrying cast on them, you would only notice it if you got within 10' of them (because then you would be being observed by the scrying effect).
 

mvincent said:
Note that the Scrying spell itself doesn't actually create a sensor per se
can I ask where you got that interpretation of Scrying...?

Scrying
Divination (Scrying)
Level: Brd 3, Clr 5, Drd 4, Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, M/DF, F
Casting Time: 1 hour
Range: See text
Effect: Magical sensor
Duration: 1 min./level
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

You can see and hear some creature, which may be at any distance. If the subject succeeds on a Will save, the scrying attempt simply fails. The difficulty of the save depends on how well you know the subject and what sort of physical connection (if any) you have to that creature. Furthermore, if the subject is on another plane, it gets a +5 bonus on its Will save.

If the save fails, you can see and hear the subject and the subject’s immediate surroundings (approximately 10 feet in all directions of the subject). If the subject moves, the sensor follows at a speed of up to 150 feet.

As with all divination (scrying) spells, the sensor has your full visual acuity, including any magical effects. In addition, the following spells have a 5% chance per caster level of operating through the sensor: detect chaos, detect evil, detect good, detect law, detect magic, and message.


the spell description makes it quite obvious that it creates a sensor... hence my question...

Anyway... I'm starting to lean towards allowing automatic detection of scrying on others if you happen to be within 10ft of the target and the awareness of the sensor if you're within 40ft...

thanks to everyone who offered opinions and assistance...
 


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