D&D 5E Determining an animal's attack stat

[WolfWhale]

Hey all,

So I'm looking to make a beast conclave ranger with a panther companion. The Panther's Strength and Dex both have a +2, and its attack is made with a +2 stat. Is there a way to tell which stat is feeding into that attack? Panthers seem like dexy creatures, and if wolves use dex it definitely makes sense that they would too. That being said, I can't tell if its supposed to be one or the other and it will probably matter due to the ASIs animal companions can get.

Also, does it say anywhere which stat feeds into the DC of its pounce feature?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Hriston]

There's no way to tell which ability is used for the attacks. I think you could pick one or the other. Personally, I'm inclined towards STR, but you could make a case for either one. I believe the pounce DC is STR based as well. Compare with the tiger, for example.

 

[Coroc]

Almost any animal attacks with strength aka brute force. Many animals have much denser muscles than humans, e.g. a chimp despite not having having arms thicker than an average man can rip off the arm of a strong man.

The only animals where imho dex would be applicable are eventually birds or insects or cats or such. But never a panther or a lion, these are very strong, despite looking elegeant and smooth in their movement. A grown male lion can tear along a 3000 pound prey animal .

 

[jaelis]

You'll have to ask your DM on this one. The question comes up when using Ray of Enfeeblement too.

 

[ro]

Hey all,

So I'm looking to make a beast conclave ranger with a panther companion. The Panther's Strength and Dex both have a +2, and its attack is made with a +2 stat. Is there a way to tell which stat is feeding into that attack? Panthers seem like dexy creatures, and if wolves use dex it definitely makes sense that they would too. That being said, I can't tell if its supposed to be one or the other and it will probably matter due to the ASIs animal companions can get.

Also, does it say anywhere which stat feeds into the DC of its pounce feature?

Thanks in advance!

Though technically you can't tell, almost all beasts use Strength for all of their attacks. Mostly, only flying beasts use Dexterity, but there are other exceptions.

Also, comparing with similar beasts, all other cats--Cats, Lions, Tigers, and Saber-Toothed Tigers--use Strength.

It is safe to say that Panthers use Strength as their attack stat.

 

[epithet]

This came up in our group, and I took a look at various beasts to see if I could discern a pattern. I think I looked at every beast with a claw and bite attack in the MM and VGM, and I came to this conclusion: when you eliminate the CR 0 beasts, the Claw and Bite actions seem to be treated as versatile. They use whichever stat is highest for the beast in question, so STR on the wolf, and DEX for the velociraptor.

That said, I concluded that it only made sense to use STR to calculate the save DC for a panther's pounce knockdown.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

This came up in our group, and I took a look at various beasts to see if I could discern a pattern. I think I looked at every beast with a claw and bite attack in the MM and VGM, and I came to this conclusion: when you eliminate the CR 0 beasts, the Claw and Bite actions seem to be treated as versatile. They use whichever stat is highest for the beast in question, so STR on the wolf, and DEX for the velociraptor.

When you compare that across creatures that aren't beasts, do you see many instances of natural attacks which use the lower stat? Even among elementals, their Slam attacks use the higher of the two - which is why air elementals hit harder than water elementals.

 

[epithet]

There are exceptions, but I wouldn't say there are many instances, no. There are some, however. Doggish creatures almost always use strength, and flying creatures always use dex until you get to the size large "giant" birds, which use strength. There's clearly not a rule, but there is a trend.

I feel pretty solid about ruling that a bite or claw attack on a (size medium) beast (that isn't a dog) (and doesn't fly) should be treated as versatile when it comes to choosing between dex or strength as its attack and damage stat.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

I feel pretty solid about ruling that a bite or claw attack on a (size medium) beast (that isn't a dog) (and doesn't fly) should be treated as versatile when it comes to choosing between dex or strength as its attack and damage stat.

How do you feel about such a beast being subject to a Ray of Enfeeblement? If some weird lizard creature has Strength 14 and Dex 12, can it switch to using Dex for its claw attack in order to avoid dealing half damage?

 

[MechaTarrasque]

Maybe it is just me, but I think str-based users of a versatile weapon use the weapon differently then dex-based users--the outcome is the same (stick them with the pointy end), but the process is different. This relates to the beasts in that I don't think a beast is smart enough to switch from str to dex if hit with a Ray of Enfeeblement (or say something like a Ray of Clumsiness [which totally should be a thing]) in the middle of a fight. To be honest, I am not sure many humanoids have sufficient training to make that kind of change on the fly (not for anyone less skilled than the NPC Champion).